Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
- DetroiTug
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Quote: "And listen If you want to talk about my boat do it in the right venue, otherwise it just looks like an ad hominem attack."
Sorry if you took it that way.
Sorry if you took it that way.
- barts
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Wouldn't this be a "ad naviculam"* attack ?DetroiTug wrote:Quote: "And listen If you want to talk about my boat do it in the right venue, otherwise it just looks like an ad hominem attack."
Sorry if you took it that way.
- Bart
* No idea how to correctly conjugate this; it needs to be in the accusative singular afaict.
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Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
- cyberbadger
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Apology accepted.DetroiTug wrote:Sorry if you took it that way.
I apologize too if I upset anyone. Thing is I do care about safety and I think everybody reading this does too.
Getting into steam was a rough process for me, and I've see nearly the same thing happen again with new comers elsewhere and here. I have thought several times about making a 1-2min youtube video about steam safety and just point to all the good correct references/guides/law and basically a sum up of why there is no really such thing as a good cheap safe boiler without a far bit of effort, but point to some of the better options.
-CB
- fredrosse
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
What has been addressed so far is the thermal expansion coefficients of the liquid and the containing metal. Our software for closed cooling systems considers the compressability of the fluid vs. pressure, in addition to its expansion due to temperature. To that add the expansion of the containing vessel due to temperature, plus the expansion of the container volume due to added stress as pressure climbs (or reduced stress as pressure decays). Some interesting results here, for many conditions pressure actually decreases as the system is heated, even though the fluid does expand in volume.
- cyberbadger
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Fred did you mean post that in a different thread?
This thread is concerning the laws concerning steamboating in the US, not the engineering.
-CB
P.S. Ok I see the full boiler sunshine post was in this thread.
This thread is concerning the laws concerning steamboating in the US, not the engineering.
-CB
P.S. Ok I see the full boiler sunshine post was in this thread.
- barts
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
This would suggest that the container volume increases more quickly than the fluid volume with temperature. Under what conditions does this occur?fredrosse wrote:What has been addressed so far is the thermal expansion coefficients of the liquid and the containing metal. Our software for closed cooling systems considers the compressability of the fluid vs. pressure, in addition to its expansion due to temperature. To that add the expansion of the containing vessel due to temperature, plus the expansion of the container volume due to added stress as pressure climbs (or reduced stress as pressure decays). Some interesting results here, for many conditions pressure actually decreases as the system is heated, even though the fluid does expand in volume.
- Bart
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Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
- cyberbadger
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Advection of the Earth towards Sol. The Boiler gets the heat first. Water can't swell before the boiler.barts wrote: This would suggest that the container volume increases more quickly than the fluid volume with temperature. Under what conditions does this occur?
-CB
- barts
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Let's focus on steady state conditions; assuming something about heating (radiation/convection patterns) makes this too hard to think about.cyberbadger wrote:Advection of the Earth towards Sol. The Boiler gets the heat first. Water can't swell before the boiler.barts wrote: This would suggest that the container volume increases more quickly than the fluid volume with temperature. Under what conditions does this occur?
-CB
- BNart
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Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
Bart Smaalders http://smaalders.net/barts Lopez Island, WA
- fredrosse
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
CB is thinking transient conditions, where the heat gets to the metal, but not to the bulk of the water, that condition is rare, but might happen with some special circumstances.
The steady state / isothermal case is where the material of the piping and pressure vessel has a large thermal coefficient of expansion. PVC and CPVC have thermal expansion coefficients several times that of steel.
However, even steel containers can have more thermal expansion than several liquids. A good example is water, heated from 33F to 39F!
The steady state / isothermal case is where the material of the piping and pressure vessel has a large thermal coefficient of expansion. PVC and CPVC have thermal expansion coefficients several times that of steel.
However, even steel containers can have more thermal expansion than several liquids. A good example is water, heated from 33F to 39F!
- cyberbadger
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Re: Exact Legal Patchwork in the US for Boilers on Boats
Do we get a fancy graph/simulation screenshot? That might look neat to see the relationship.fredrosse wrote: A good example is water, heated from 33F to 39F!
-CB