Hydrostatic Test

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
User avatar
DetroiTug
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Location: Northwest Detroit

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by DetroiTug » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:14 pm

The original poster did PM me back and thanked me for the correct advice. I opted to give reply on the forum thread as there was no point in keeping it a private discussion.

It's unfortunate and very revealing that my common knowledge reply resulted in any sort of debate. There was nothing to debate. Reading the Smokstak forum thread linked clearly shows there is need for education. I implore anyone that is currently operating a boiler or planning to that doesn't understand the difference in behavior between liquid and a gas under pressure or the correct procedure or the purpose of a hydrostatic test, stop operating the boiler or planning to and educate themselves and fully understand basic safe boiler operation before proceeding, or find another hobby. It's no area for egos, intuition, hunches or experimentation where injury or death can definitely result.

As I mentioned a few years ago, one newsworthy accident could end our hobby at the stroke of a pen and in our small numbers we would be powerless to combat it. We are on no one's radar at present and let's keep it that way.

A similar scenario is playing out right now around the country with Army duckboat tours. A few accidents with some fatal, there is public outrage and many calling on governments for outright bans. I've had several curious people at shows ask me if this type of boat (steamboat) is legal or safe to operate which clearly shows the level of public understanding and attitude towards steam power in general. It shows that it wouldn't take much convincing of the politicians or public to enact a ban. Thanks to Hollywood, practically every steam thing eventually blows up and kills people. The truth is there hasn't been a steam related steamboat fatality in the US in over a hundred years.

Be safe, get safe or find something else to do.

-Ron
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by cyberbadger » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:19 pm

DetroiTug wrote:The truth is there hasn't been a steam related steamboat fatality in the US in over a hundred years.
What about the SS Norway boiler explosion in 2003 in Florida with 8 killed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiler_explosions

-CB
User avatar
Lopez Mike
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1903
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
Boat Name: S.L. Spiffy
Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by Lopez Mike » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:13 pm

I may well be the only unfortunate here who has first hand experience with death from a flawed hydro test. At the risk of upsetting some, I will explain. It may help you to understand why I am easily upset.

Some years ago I was a field engineer for a major process control computer company, Leeds and Northrup. I arrived on a new job in Olympia Washington to start sorting out the installation. A water treatment facility (sewage plant).

There were two 30" diameter lines between two stages of the treatment plant. Perhaps three hundred feet long. The specification called for the lines to be hydro tested. Both ends of the lines were capped with one inch thick plates, the lines were filled with water and pressure was applied from an air line. A bad idea to use air but the ratio of air to water should have been extreme in this case. One end of the lines entered a building in a well about ten by ten feet by fifteen feet deep. All very well until the human element began to intrude.

A: The contractor had to pay for the water to fill the pipes. They only filled them part way.
B: The tapped holes for the cap screws holding the temporary three foot diameter end plates were not tapped to full depth so washers were placed under the heads so that the bolts could be tightened. Only a few threads were engaged in many cases.
C: The exit well at one end of the run was closed off for safety with warning signs (good). Two pipe fitters, knowing that there would be zero foot traffic in that well decided to go in there to smoke a joint. (bad).

I was entering the work site for the first time. I heard an amazing earth shaking thud and a human arm landed at my feet complete with a sleeve. The cap screws on one of the temporary cap plates had pulled free and the 36" diameter by 1" thick plate weighing perhaps hundreds of pounds bounced around in the well at extremely high velocity with the both people being dismembered by it.

Besides the tragedy of two lost lives, however much they had contributed to their own fate, people had to clean up what was left of them.

Please read again what Fred has just shared with us. It is written in blood.
If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
Dalai Lama
User avatar
fredrosse
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:34 am
Boat Name: Margaret S.
Location: Phila PA USA
Contact:

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by fredrosse » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:02 pm

1) How often should a household aircompressor or airtank be hydroed?
Regulations vary among states, but as a general thumb-rule, testing in accordance with regulations for 20 pound propane cylinders would be equivalent. Full hydro testing is generally not required in nominal service. These vessels will normally develop leaks before they become dangerous, due to corrosion in one small portion of the tank, and must scrapped. If repaired, then a new hydro is required.
Some states have no regulations, and others require full ASME Code tanks. ASME Code requirements are adopted by more and more states as time advances.

2) How often are 40ft+ / commerical steamboat boilers required to hydro by the coast guard?
See attached chart. The need for hydro is also at the USCG inspector's option, based on other inspection criteria.

3) How often are vessels 40ft+/ commerical required to have air tanks hydro test by the coast guard?
Every 5 years, or at license renewal, which can be a much shorter time. The need for hydro is at the USCG inspector's option, based on other inspection criteria.
Attachments
USCG Boiler Hydro.jpg
USCG Boiler Hydro.jpg (61.5 KiB) Viewed 6618 times
User avatar
fredrosse
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:34 am
Boat Name: Margaret S.
Location: Phila PA USA
Contact:

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by fredrosse » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:42 pm

For our steamboat boilers, some steamboat organizations require a hydro test every year, at 150% on maximum allowable operating pressure, which is also usually 150% of the safety valve set pressure.

While this might be considered more strict than found in other industrial/commercial applications, in my opinion this should be a minimum standard for our steamboat boilers. Many small steamboat boilers are not designed by professional pressure vessel designers, and may not be maintained nor inspected to high standards. The annual 150% hydro test provides a measure of confidence that the boiler will hold up reasonably well for another season of steaming. On our steamboats we sit right next to the boiler, and our loved ones often do the same. Extra precautions are a good idea.

My safety valve is set at 100 PSI, but I routinely pump the boiler up to 550 PSI on the annual hydro, because I know the stresses are still below ASME allowables at this pressure. Other less conservatively designed boilers might be damaged with this level of test pressure, and the common 150% of MAWP hydro should be easily passed for any boiler that I would want to be near.

Beyond that, one can get a boiler into serious trouble with improper operation, like letting the water level go too low, among many other potential difficulties. The hydro is not all encompassing with regard to safe operation.
User avatar
cyberbadger
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:16 pm
Boat Name: SL Nyitra
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by cyberbadger » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:51 pm

Thanks Fred.

What should I add or modify for a yearly inspection of Nyitra. This is how I'm operating right now and was planning to. I'm trying toc over what is listed on the uscg table.

Yearly
1) Hydro conducted once a year as prescribed - performed by myself. (Last conducted August 2016)
2) Quick visual inspection inside the firebox (All I can do myself is look for changes or things that stand out)

3 years:
Fusible Plug - outright replacement every 3 years and avoid inspection.

During operation:
3) ASME Safety Relief Valve tested during operation. I _usually_ hit MAWP at least once. Sometimes I check the gauges and make sure they it pops within 5psi or so.
4) Steam Gauge - I have two on the boiler. Plan is if one deviates significantly >15psi Replace the gauge that is deviating
5) Watch, Look, and Listen. If something seems funny that I don't understand I will give my steam mentor a call/seek outside guidance. If it really seems wrong, pull the fire and call it a day. Get a tow if necessary.

I would love to add a yearly independent inspection. I haven't tried the coast guard, but no one else seems to do this. I don't know if they will inspect boats registered with the State of Ohio or only coast guard documented vessels. The last Ohio State inspector (That does commercial and traction engines) said they don't do boats. Progressive, who insures Nyitra has never made a mention of an inspection required or voluntary. I went and talked to an Ohio Watercraft Officer and they asked about the boiler. When I said it was new and I had tried he seemed satisfied with that. I am a member of the Steam Boating Association of Great Britain. I know they have a service in the UK - but I don't know of any similar services in the US. I have been a member of the North American Steamboat Association and would renew my membership if it helped me get independent inspection.

So what should be added or changed?

-CB
User avatar
Lopez Mike
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1903
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
Boat Name: S.L. Spiffy
Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by Lopez Mike » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:48 am

If there is any possibility of forming an association in your area, do so. I am very lucky that the N.W. is a hot bed of steam activity and our association has a safety committee to supervise and sign off on a basic inspection. Our only authority is to not allow an uninspected boat to attend any of our events. It seems to be working.

To my knowledge the only failure we have has was an Oltfedt with copper tubes that was fired up with only a bit of water in it. A tube burst with only a loud sigh as the copper went soft at only a few P.S.I. The only casualty was the pride of the owner. Obviously an operating error rather than a structural issue. The boiler had passed a hydro recently.

Besides, one of the wonderful benefits of messing with steam is the social aspect. Where else can you socialize with people who are as bone crazy as you are?
If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
Dalai Lama
User avatar
DetroiTug
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Location: Northwest Detroit

Re: Hydrostatic Test

Post by DetroiTug » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:32 am

DetroiTug wrote:
The truth is there hasn't been a steam related steamboat fatality in the US in over a hundred years.

What about the SS Norway boiler explosion in 2003 in Florida with 8 killed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiler_explosions

-CB


Okay, "Hobby" steam boat. Do a Google search for "Hobby steam boat explosion" and see what you can find.
Post Reply