Frances Anne

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csonics
Anne from Little Britan
Anne from Little Britan
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:17 pm
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Location: Roseville, MN
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Frances Anne

Post by csonics » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:32 pm

Posted on behalf of P.F.Cuthbert@Classicfm.ne:

P.F.Cuthbert@Classicfm.ne
Steam on Deck


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: Frances Anne
Dear Steamboating friends

As the recipient of so much advice through these pages, it seemed only fair to give you some idea of what I have achieved so far. The photos will, I hope, be self explanatory, beginning with collection from the docks at Southampton to the most recent task:

1. Collecting at Southampton
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2. A pretty shape
Image

4. Clamp fitting
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5. Third layer
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6. Mocking up the deck curvature (As you advised!)
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7. Deck framing first fit
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8. Fore cockpit curve framing (Rough!)
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9. 3mm Ply to build up the hull profile
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10. Fore deck underlay and stem piece fitted.
Image

Regards

Pete

Last edited by P.F.Cuthbert@Classicfm.ne on Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject:
Well done Peter!

Nice stout deck frames and carlins. Good, much transverse strength comes from that. It looks like your raising the shear too.

I would definitely put in a hatch aft over the rudder. It would be very helpful accessing you steering gear.....otherwise I will have to loan you my 6 year old son to scoot up back there to work on the quadrant.....he comes with a high hourly rate though plus travel expenses.

There is much to be recommended about a flush hatch. For a good design reference, check out the "New cold molded boat building method" as there are some great ideas in there.

Run your engine bearers as far as you can to distribute the load.
I LOVE that prop....very nice!.

Give all those frames two good coats of unthickened epoxy to seal them....if you haven't already. Paint the dark areas white on the inside in the forepeak for better visibility. I would also just block in that bow with scrap pieces at the sheer and then glass the joint between the original hull and the raised sheer, though if your going to glass the deck, you can wait and overlap the deck cloth past the join and onto the original hull. That will really tie it all together....remember the toughest part of being a steamboat is bouncing down the road on the back of a trailer....not a trivial loading condition....

have you given much thought to how your going to finish the deck? I layed my deck with planks set in waterproof glue and then glassed over with epoxy and 4 oz cloth as it becomes transparent once wetted out, and then varnished, my friend Will will be glassing his plywood deck and finishing it like a canvas deck with paint with a mahogany covering board ala Herreshoff....theres at least 100 different ways in between...Its getting to be time to start thinking about it and your coaming, and any deck reenforcements for cleats, and deck hardware.

I laminated my coaming with two layers of 3/16" thick Spanish cedar to get the tight bend. That works fine, especially if your working alone, but you will spend a lot of time preparing to do the job. It is wise to get EVERYTHING together and do a dry run before you lay down the glue....that will reduce the stress level significantly.....and that is one area where it is not possible to have too many clamps cramps, straps and such........ask me how I know this....


Keep at it Peter your doing just fine!

Dave


On edit, looking at the picture, it would appear you can get back to the quadrant on you boat after all......if thats the case skip the hatch,,,it will get in the way...
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P.F.Cuthbert@Classicfm.ne
Steam on Deck


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject:
Dear Dave and fellow steam boaters

Thanks for those thoughtful comments - they will get printed off when I get near the printer!

Yes the prop is a pretty object, and an impulse buy. However, like many such, it is not quite such a good idea on closer inspection. There is only 1.5" between the top and the underside of the counter stern. Similarly, the rudder blade is just 3" from the prop, so there is no room to increase the level of balance or consider a Schilling rudder. Anyway, we will see how it performs in the water. If necessary we could always 'lose' a half inch off the tips...

I am doing the two coats process as advised, but not all the exposed wood was done in the photos. It is mostly done now. I have an alternative solution to the inside of the hull which involves epoxy rather than paint. I bought some white pigment from the epoxy supplier for an idea subsequently abandoned. However, the new plan is to mix it with un-thickened epoxy and then coat most of the interior. The moulding is pretty rough inside, so it would be useful to give it a smooth finish that can be cleaned. Theoretically it should never need painting...

The deck will be 3mm mahogany (or perhaps it is sapele) veneer cut into suitably shaped 70mm wide planks. This will be bedded on thickened epoxy with the 5mm gaps. Those will be filled with Sikaflex or equivalent and, when finally smoothed, will get the un-thickend epoxy treatment.

The messy bow with the bit of cardboard has now been fixed since the stem piece was epoxied into position. There is a triangle of mahogany to match the stem piece (I originally cut the shamfer too long...) that fills the hole and now ties the ply infills together. The latter are not load bearing as the extra clamps provide the increase in freeboard. The uneven trimming of the moulding at the bow has now been repaired with thickened epoxy and white pigment.

The steering quadrant ideas you folks suggested are well under way. I just need to cut one more piece of ply and then put all the bits together. There will just be enough room to reach under the rear deck beam and get to the important bolts. I am also planning to include two hoops on the quadrant so that it will be possible to slot in an emergency tiller. I will post a photo when it is all assembled.

I now have most of the deck hardware and am checking what extra strengthening I will need to add. The port and starbord centre cleats will need extra, but I think the fore and aft deck purlins should be sufficient given that there are plenty of knees.

The engine and boiler beds are something of a worry, but not one that keeps me awake. Until I have some progress on the boiler, I am putting that issue to one side. I have half a mind to include a couple of bilge keels that could be useful to protect the condenser tubing and, more importantly, sit flat on the trailer bunks spreading the load.

Thanks for the coaming tip. That was an issue that I have been puzzling on.

Regards


Pete
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mcandrew1894
Full Ahead


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject:
Sounds like a plan Peter! have at it!

Make sure you use a high UV inhibitor varnish over that deck....epoxy degrades under UV.


You only need 11% of your rudder area ahead of the post ( Dave Gerr reference). I built my rudder that way and she turns like a slot car with one finger on the wheel And 1 1/2 " is not too bad for clearance. My prop is far closer to the rudder than yours and I have no issue I think you will be OK


Dave

PS I went through at least 30 of those not quite 1 gallon cans of West System....
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87gn@tahoe
Full Ahead


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 148
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject:
I would like to make a suggestion regarding the engine and boiler bearers;

Make them out of some type of metal (prefirrably something that will not corrode too terribly) rather than wood..

My father glassed in wood bearers in the George H. Sandin some 25 years ago, and for the past five years or more we have noticed increased movement in the engine and boiler. A combination of moisture and vibration have weakened them signifigantly, and now we are to the point of having to figure out a bandaid or a complete replacement
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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farmerden
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 70
Location: Shawnigan Lake,B.C.
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject:
Yes Pete I agree with Wes on the engine mounts not being wood .My boat engine is held in with 4 lag bolts into wood stringers and when I had the engine out I was not thrilled with the install-Oh it works fine but what happens when one rots or strips out? I guess metal can rust and treads can strip but these engines have huge torque and I worry about wooden mounts Also metal to metal allows for more accurate alinement to the drive line. Enough of that-Are you working full time on that Pete? You are making great headway. And with all your new found knowlege you can start on my boat anytime! Keep up the good work. Den
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