The 1958 Tiny Power M Twin

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Anne from Little Britan
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The 1958 Tiny Power M Twin

Post by csonics » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:34 pm

Posted on behalf of DetroiTug:

DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: The 1958 Tiny Power M Twin
Hi all,

Thought I would share some progress on the Tiny Power M twin.

Image

Image

Image

I have a 5 minute vid of it running on air, but it's like 500 meg. Will try to rip and upload somewhere and post a link.

This engine was purchased in 1958 worked on, then put in storage in 1959 where it stayed for 50 years. I bought it early this year and am now putting it up in running order. I'm doing an article on it for Steamboating Magazine.

-Ron R

P.F.Cuthbert@Classicfm.ne
Steam on Deck


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject:
Hi Ron

Congratulations on a beautiful job. What an attractive engine!

Reagrds

Pete
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Maltelec
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Cumbria, UK
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject:
Engines looking very nice. I like the aluminium bead plate. Has given me an idea for mine.

Quote:
I have a 5 minute vid of it running on air, but it's like 500 meg


If you use Windows XP it comes with Windows Movie Maker. Simply stick your video into that and tell it to save it using the 2Mbit setting, that'll save the quality and reduce its size considerably.
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject:
Great looking engine!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject:
Here is a video of it running. I have a problem with No2 cylinder, or valve actually, I can't get it to seal for some reason. You can hear it weasing in the video. I think what it may be is the bottom face of the cylinder is not square to the valve face. It's lifting off the surface on the upshift. I didn't machine that. Was done by the original owner. And as has been the case, those parts have needed to be fixed or completely replaced. I'll put the cylinder on an angle plate, dust it and lap.

Thanks for all the great comments.

-Ron R

Image

DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject:
Pulled the rear cylinder, squared and refaced the valve surface. That fixed it. One more issue, the pecking sound, It's the wrist eye on no2 rod. The previous owner bored it out of square, I tried to straighten it, wound up egg shaped. I'll get a new rod for it.

Sounds much better now.

-Ron

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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject:
YUP....squareness, parallelism and fit are what it takes......

Runs real smooth!....especially without a flywheel!
Glad it worked out for you!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject:
Hi Dave,

I'm going to try and leave the flywheel off of it to save weight. Looks a little bizarre, but I just can't see that it is necessary. This is going is a steel hull, trying to shave as much weight off this project as possible.

That rod eye has about .005"/.1mm play. it sounds like it has a lot more. I'll get that fixed. That is the only detectable noise I hear.

Thanks, Ron R
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:12 am Post subject:
Having a small "wheel" is convienent if you want to turn the engine over manually for whatever reason....would recommend a large diameter, light wheel.

A large "airy" valve wheel or even a light weight aluminum wheel would be very useful.

Just my opinion,,,,worth exactly what you paid for it!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:18 am Post subject:
Dave,

That is a good idea. If I needed to adjust a valve or something, would make it easier to jog the crank around having the extra resistance, of the stuffing box and all that.

Thanks Ron
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject:
Keep it light weight....diameter does more for you with a flywheel than does mass....watch you installation though, so you don't need to cut a hole in the bottom of the boat.....a suboptimal condition...lets too much water in.

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:59 am Post subject:
More Progress. Now have the shift linkage machined and test fit. Runs forward and backward now.

Image

Image

Shows how the pins in the valve rods are kept. The head of the rod is small and there wasn't much way to secure the rotation, used an old toolmaking trick.

Image

Close up of one of the arms. Lots of machining. And polishing to come.

Image

It's hard to see in the pic, but the main shaft runs out the back side, the plan is to attach another arm there, and link it to the controls up in the pilot house. Just some simple 3/8" water pipe linkage. Looks as though it needs around 90 degrees of swing. May be a tight fit as the plan is to build an exhaust manifold. I was thinking 2 inch/50mm brass tube, then silver solder two smaller tubes from each cylinder/exhaust flange. Inside this large tube, capped on one end, wind a 3/8" copper coil. To use as a preheater for the boiler feed. Is this a good idea?

Thanks, Ron
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dwkoski
Just Starting Out


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject:
Is this the engine that was listed on eBay about a year ago? If so I purchased the plans for it which were listed as a seperate auction. I have completed my single M side crank and keep meaning to post a picture but the new digital camera's smallest file size is too large to upload on my ISP. I'll try to get one posted. Ordering a boiler this week from Jeff Lund. I laid out the strongback for the hull last weekend and was working on the first mold frame this morning before work. 19 1/2 foot pinnace drawn up by Paul Gartside. Hope to post pictures soon...DAve
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject:
Yes, it was bought off of Ebay. Probably was about a year ago. I was thinking it was back in the spring. It laid spread out on a pallet in my shop for a long time. Could be the same engine. There are actually quite a few engines that have been on Ebay. I bought a single M off of there too, a few years ago. I went thru it and put it in running order, and the project design has now progressed to a point where the twin is needed instead.

Your project sounds interesting, yes please do post some pics. Always fun to see what other folks are doing.

Ron
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject:
Linkage polished.

Image

Now on to build the exhaust manifold.

Ron

mcandrew1894
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject:
My Eyes!! My Eyes!.......


We're are my glasses?


NICE!

Dave
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87gn@tahoe
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:21 am Post subject:
wow that's beautiful...

Yeah, a heat exchanger in the exhaust is a great idea.. I do not know how much of a restriction 3/8" tubing so tightly coiled would impose upon the feedwater... If that poses a problem, you could build a simple shell and tube heat-exchanger... One could also build an economizer to fit above the tubenest in the boiler....

The idea is to get the water as hot as possible before entering the boiler (without it flashing into steam prior to entry).. 180 degrees F is probably a safe target.. you might be pushng your luck much higher than that.

There are many more people with much more experience than I who could better cover this subject.
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-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:32 am Post subject:
Building a heat exchanger in the exhaust should work I'm thinking, should be no risk of flash boiling the feedwater. The water is moving slow enough that it shouldn't even take that much copper. Running the feed pump off of the crank, the amount of heating required will automatically be synch'd with the volume of feedwater being pumped. The only drawback or potential problem I see and it may not be that big of a problem, is the coil will act as a condenser and cause the exhaust to be more wet than normal. And I plan on exhausting through the stack, so it may be a case of after-stack, wear a hat.

Assembly of the manifold should be fine with just lead solder? No reason to get the Silvaloy out on that, I wouldn't think.

Here is one without the flash, ok I'm just showing off now..

Image

Thanks for great compliments.

Ron
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stevey_frac
Lighting the Boiler


Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 37

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject:
Man is she every pretty.

Keep us updated. I'll be watching this thread with great interest since you apparently want to do something very similar to me.
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87gn@tahoe
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:
oh, when I was referring to the feedwater getting too hot I was talking more in line with the economizer suggestion... coils of tubing in the flue gasses path with no circulation, while getting steam up... you get the idea..

As far as the heat exchanger goes, it will act as a condenser of sorts, but if you put an elbow with a drain on it inline with your exhaust before going up the stack, you may be okay...

You'd proabably be okay with lead solder.. as long as it held up to the feedwater pressure
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject:
Hey guys,

Not to be a party pooper......but with feed lines and exhaust lines, I think you would be better off with silver solder....on the pressure side anyway.

If you have a condensor, I would suggest it there too.

One obstruction and you have some serious pressure....Not a good time to have a sweat joint come apart on ya.....

skimp some place else.....

Just my opinion....worth exactly what you paid for it......


Dave
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject:
As to a feedwater heater, I used a truck fuel oil preheater. Beckman sells them in 1 2 and 3 square feet of heating surface. Mine is a 1

I have mine in the exhaust line before the condensor, but I haven't got the touit wired to plump up the temp gage... ....yet.....


gets hotter than a pistol......not exactly the scientific method but what the hell


Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject:
Is that a two dollar pistol? Then it's hot enough..

Thinking about just warming water and heat transfer etc. I wonder what would be wrong with just wrapping a coil around the boiler underneath the lagging before it goes in.. Seems like that would work too??

Yeah for the lead solder, I was thinking just assembling the manifold itself. The pressure line, I'll use silvaloy. Reason I want to do that, is I can sweat it together and would probably be easier to control the run off of the solder, put some sort of mask on the areas I dont want soldered, tinze beforehand and then heat and assemble. If I need to disassemble, will be a lot easier. I can't think of a clean way to assemble it without flanges and not have it leak. Could thread it all.

Thats a good idea Wesley, about just putting a drain on the exhaust line. Quarter inch or so right out of the bottom of the manifold, then divert the rest out the stack.

Thanks for the compliments and ideas.

Ron
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject:
..."Thinking about just warming water and heat transfer etc. I wonder what would be wrong with just wrapping a coil around the boiler underneath the lagging before it goes in.. Seems like that would work too?? "...


Waste heat is waste heat.....it flows regardless of location...

Taking it from the exhaust might help the overall efficiency more ,,,,maybe.


Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject:
I've finally collected all the bronze tubing to a$$emble the manifold

The main body will be 1.75" 45mm ID and 2.25"/57mm OD. Still designing the rear that will nest the two 3/8" lines and connect a 1" NPT out the back for the exhaust. I figured with two 3/4" steamchest exhaust ports, need to increase the diameter, so as not to cause a restriction.

-Ron
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject:
Quote: "Taking it from the exhaust might help the overall efficiency more ,,,,maybe. "

Ahh I see what you're getting at. Condensing the exhaust steam would decrease the internal pressure of the manifold. Should be some benefit, not sure how much.

-Ron
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:04 am Post subject:
Did some testing to see if it was possible to wind 3/8 copper tight enough to fit in the manifold. Looks like a go, now to make a proper mandrel. Change of plan, wanted to put the in and out on one end of the manifold, I'll have to go in one end and come out the other, doubt it will be possible to come back, maybe. If the copper were annealed beforehand..

-Ron

Image

87gn@tahoe
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject:
wow that's a tight coil
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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barts
Lighting the Boiler


Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:41 am Post subject:
When I made mine I had the steam flow down a large 2" brass tube packed w/ a bunch of
1/4" copper tubes carrying the water to be heated (classic shell & tube heat exchanger, w/ the steam in the shell). Works well, and no large diameter passages that cut down on heat transfer... if the steam passages are smooth, steam velocities can be high w/o a lot of back pressure; that helps heat transfer a lot....

- Bart
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:56 am Post subject:
That is around 3' of copper. I'm not sure how to calculate the heat transfer, but I'm thinking that should be pretty close to do the job. Yes, will try to keep the passages as smooth as possible. The rear "chunk" of the manifold body will be a radial slot transitioning into a 1" NPT. If the two overlap internally there should be no or little restriction on the redirect.

Looking at that coil after pulling it off the mandrel, one could fashion a very skinny Ofeldt type boiler with a bunch of those.

DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject:
Here is what it looks like so far, still waiting on the material to make the ends with the NPT to connect to the pump/boiler. Did get them drawn up in CAD. Not finalized on the design, as it is right now I need a 2" tall mechanic or a guy with very skinny arms to go in there and connect the line once it is assembled or nearly assembled.

As I was writing this it dawned on me. Just solder a flange with a threaded bolt circle on the coil on one end and then use an o-ring to seal. bolts from outside the endcap to draw it up, once the end cap is installed.

Oring should be able to withstand a few hundred degrees F? Could use a gasket too.
-Ron

Image

87gn@tahoe
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject:
viton would be good to go... all the packing in my engine are viton o-rings... works at 800+ rpm (200 RPM @ the pumps) @ 175 psi, 450-500 degree F superheat...

I imagine it would last nearly forever in your application
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject:
Wes,

Vitron sounds like what I'm needing.

Thanks, Ron
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:25 am Post subject:
I second the Viton....have it in my engine.

Watch the durometer, some are pretty hard.

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:50 pm Post subject:
Dave,

I was looking at that on McMaster Carr, they have all different grades of packing too by the way. What durometer are you using? I was thinking around 70?

-Ron
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:18 am Post subject:
Hi Ron,

Hard to say. Need a drawing of the application. My guess from your description of the install is a softer one, but always check the assumptions!
My application is all static ones, and I am running about 70 durometer IIRC which is fairly hard and about 1-1/4 in diameter. Mine are all located in O-ring grooves and are used to seal the piston valve sleeves and the face joints in the recevier and they can be tough to seat. I would run a softer durometer if I had the chance again....makes putting them in and taking them out a bit easier, but I don't tear her down often....like once thus far after I ingested a pipe thread chip and siezed her.....that was about 10 years ago, and they haven't been out since.

Then again....yours may be completely different....need a drawing or a sketch of the installation with some dimensions

Glad to help if I can......

Dave

Is it just around the that coiled tube in the center?.....need to see how your puttin that together..
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:25 am Post subject:
Dave,

Here is a sketch. I was thinking about a .035" squash on the O-ring. This will just draw up from the outside.

-Ron

Image

DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject:
Here is a sketch of the manifold/heat exchanger. Assembly would be solder the coil with flange attached to the rear chunk first. Then feed it into the tube. The flange would be set to length and clocked with the holes in the front end cap. Then draw up the flange from the outside once the front cap is installed.

-Ron

Image

Gerrit
Just Starting Out


Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject:
DetroiTug wrote:
Hi Dave,

I'm going to try and leave the flywheel off of it to save weight. Looks a little bizarre, but I just can't see that it is necessary. This is going is a steel hull, trying to shave as much weight off this project as possible.

That rod eye has about .005"/.1mm play. it sounds like it has a lot more. I'll get that fixed. That is the only detectable noise I hear.

Thanks, Ron R


Hi Ron,

What kind of hull re you putting your engine into?
I'm very curious, because I'm still doubting between a steel version of the reliable "Salty", and Hankinsons "Titan" for my project.

Thanks
Gerrit
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject:
Hi Gerrit,

I'm going with the Reliable Steam Salty plan. I'm stepping out on a limb a bit and building it in steel and then taking another step out and scaling it all up by 10%.

Putting it all in perspective, the parameters are, it needs to float upright and be able to achieve a speed in the vicinity of 5 knots.

Hankinson's Titan? Never heard of that one, I'll have to look it up, have a link or pics? I did try to contact Mal Low? I think his name was. Never got a response.

:: Just Googled them, yeah a Glen-L design, I remember looking at that one. Nice tug, but I think it would be better suited to an I/C engine setup.

Thanks, Ron
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Maltelec
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Cumbria, UK
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I'm going to try and leave the flywheel off of it to save weight.


A subject which has been raised many times in the SBA.

The general conclusion is that even a twin high engine runs far better with a flywheel.

However don't forget that the weight in the centre of the flywheel doesn't do much. If you made a large diameter flywheel with thin spoked and a reasonable thickness ring it will be just as good.
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject:
I'll probably just go ahead and put the flywheel on it. Not going to add that much weight.

Comparing my plan with that of the "Titan" I just looked at, my boat should be quite a bit lighter. They call for 11ga on the skin, that is a lot of weight. Call out for a bunch of 1/2 plate etc. I'm not using any 1/2" plate. 3/8" is the thickest and that it the keel and stem. Going to use 11 ga on the bottom of the hull and 13 ga everywhere else, dual chine hull. The Titan is close to 3 tons displacement. That's a lot of weight to go down the road with.

I devised a way to weld the keel together in sections and not have it warp when cut out. Should work pretty good. But, I'm trying to keep this as light as possible. Don't want to have to buy a 1 ton dual wheel truck to move it around.

My target is for under 4000 pounds complete. A rough figure on the hull materials is around 1400 pounds, and that was being pretty liberal in the calcs.

A 20 foot lifeboat I seen all made of steel looked like it was skinned in 16 ga .060". That's kind of what I'm goin by.

Thanks, Ron
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Gerrit
Just Starting Out


Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:39 am Post subject:
Hi Ron,

I made some very rough calculations considering a "Salty" in steel or wood.The plywood of 16 mm needed weighs about 10 kilo a sqr metre 10 gauge steel about 32 kg a sqr metre, so say 11 gauge steel weighs 25 kg a m2 thats a lot of weight you add to the design. Don't you think that the boat will be a lot lower in the water?
( I take a rough calc that you need a total hull surface of appr 24 m2, so that would be 360 kg, roughly about 800lbs)

Cheers, Gerrit
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mcandrew1894
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject:
Hi Ron,

You appear to have about .03" compression on the a .125 diameter ring. I think it will be a bit high compression but acceptable with 70 durometer

You have at least 3 screws to pull it in, so I think it should work just fine, even if you don't pull it all the way in, but I would wonder about the screws leaking by if it doesn't pull the flange tight to the face.

If I was to hedge my bet, I would go with .020.....but we're splitting hairs now...so

I would try making the joint before you solder it on the coil...and adjust the depth of the O-ring groove if necessary.....again were splitting hairs...

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject:
Hi Gerrit,

Thank you for doing the calculations. The hull has quite a bit of beam and height. The plan says the hull can take up to an 800 pound boiler, I'm expecting it to set a bit lower than the waterline, however it is being scaled up some. I actually plan to use 13 ga skin on most of the hull. it is only .093 thick if I remember correctly. the 11 ga will just be two panels, the very bottom surface. Comparing it to the Titan visually, the two hulls are very similar in appearance, or are they? Hopefully you have the plan for both. In my experience with wood, once the wood is laid and then overlaid with fiberglass they become rather hefty as well. Wish I know for sure. I have no qualms with changing designs. Not very fond of the Titan for steam though.

Thanks, Ron

DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject:
Hi Dave,

Thanks for looking in to that.

The bolts should only be subjected to manifold pressure, and hopefully not all that tight. Should be able to put a fiber washer under the head of each if they leak. They are outside the O-ring.

I'll go with a .03 squash, I can always throw it back in the mill, tram it in and go deeper, I'll circle mill it with a 1/8 ball nose. Will be easier than trying to grind a tool with that radius and necessary clearance for the lathe.

After being jogged a bit here. Probably best to calculate the cross section area of the ring channel, then the area of the cross section of the O-ring and make them close to equal. And go with a 70 durometer as you suggest. Nice to have folks that have done all this stuff to bounce ideas back and forth with.

Thanks, Ron
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87gn@tahoe
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject:
A dab of high-temp RTV or ARP thread sealer would seal those screws right up... No "unsightly" washers
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:21 am Post subject:
Hi Ron,

You should have enough clearance volume..I was more concerned about clamp force required from the #10 screws.....but again....splitting hairs....if your trying it before hand, you'll be fine either way and it's a minor mod in the mill.


Wes's idea of a bit of high temp RTV at the flange is a good one....just to seal the bolts.....just another hair neatly parted though as when that flange seats, they'll seal well enough.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the design either way....should work.

I wouldn't be against putting an O-ring in the OD to seal the manifold....but for atm exhaust.....where's the cleaver

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:34 am Post subject:
Dave,

The bolts I'm going to use although not period are socket cap screws in the ends of the manifold. There simply isn't room for hex head bolts. The washer is just a small ring and they are not visible in the counterbores.

The material is here, now if I can get a chance to get back to work on it.

Thanks, Ron
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject:
Here is an actual working drawing for the rear of the manifold. I had it drawn up the other day and had to change it, once the internal passages were examined.

-Ron

Image

mcandrew1894
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject:
Glad to see a pilot diameter....Looks good!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject:
Looks like it will work so far. I had a thought as I was milling that slot, I hope I'm not building a whistle. haha. Will be known as the whistling tug.
Image

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87gn@tahoe
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject:
beautiful...

Was that done on CNC machinery?
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Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
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-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:17 am Post subject:
Hi Wes,

The slot and the bolt holes were done in the CNC mill. The lathe work is all manual. And I hope I don't have to tap any more 1"NPT holes any time soon. Forgot how much fun that was, glad it wasn't steel instead of bronze.

Thanks, Ron
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87gn@tahoe
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:56 am Post subject:
DetroiTug wrote:






I LOVE the look of that... just so... CLEAN
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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87gn@tahoe
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:58 am Post subject:
DetroiTug wrote:






I LOVE the look of that... just so... clean
_________________
Wesley Harcourt
-S.L. Wayward Belle (Mr. Grosjean was/is a genius.)
-S.L. George H. Sandin (Father's boat. Cut my teeth on that one.)
-'64 Buick Riviera
-'65 Buick Special WAGON
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:56 am Post subject:
Nice work Ron!

Very nice......that port looks fairly large....should be just fine!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject:
And here it is.. Sure sounds good with that now. Has a very deep sound.

Thanks for the compliments.

-Ron





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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject:
oh Man!

Your Kung-fu is better than mine!
8)

NICE!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject:
Thanks Dave,

Getting sidetracked again.. Itching to start the hull.

-Ron

mcandrew1894
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:30 am Post subject:
What are you planning on building?

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:54 am Post subject:
Dave,

I am building the "Salty" tug from reliable plans. The picture on their site is not a very clear depiction. It's a classic early pilothouse/after cabin tug with plum bow, round stern and knuckle. Similar to Magnolia but the hull is different. The plan calls for 20 foot length and wood, I scaled it up by 10% and it is now 22 feet long and 8 feet wide. The plans come in PDF format. I drew it up in CAD and it's nice because the hull can be rotated around check the flow of the hull from one rib to another. I pretty much had to because, building from steel, everything needs to be cut close once. I have a print for each section of every rib. The plan is to buy a good miter box and use a steel cut off blade to cut all the angles. It will probably trash the miter box eventually. However it will save a lot of time cutting them to length and then having to Metabo the angles on the bench. Originally I was going to lap joint the ribs foregoing all the angle cutting, after reading some, those are a big no-no in steel hull construction. Sort of like a wood hull, don't trap any water. We have a Milwaukee hot saw, that would make short work of cutting up the rib stock, but the miter gauge is very coarse and probably not very accurate, hence the power miter, those things are pretty accurate. I will use the Milwaukee for cutting the stringer slots.

Going to buy a plasma cutter too, for cutting the skin. Oxytorch is too hot, risk warping the piece. I'll just fit a template from luan and then transfer that to the steel.

I'll do a thread as the hull is built. I was looking, where would that go on this forum?

-Ron
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mcandrew1894
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject:
oops sorry

yes I think you told me this once....sorry


You certainly have the engine for her!

Dave
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DetroiTug
Warming the Engine


Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Outside Detroit
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject:
Oh that's ok, I don't mind explaining it again.
-Ron
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