Modern History

For the non-technical side of living with Steamboats, videos and general pictures.
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DetroiTug
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Re: Modern History

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:28 am

One more tidbit, I have two Whitney designed engines. He designed the little steam carriage engines for Mason regulator, who in turn sold the engines to various carriage builders.
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dampfspieler
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Re: Modern History

Post by dampfspieler » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:16 am

Hi,

amazing. It is a very nice engine. Who built the boiler? What diameter have the fire tubes and what is the distance between them.

Good luck for the further work
Dietrich
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DetroiTug
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Re: Modern History

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:16 am

Mike wrote: "Steel is the material of choice for almost all large hulls. When you scale it down to our sizes there are some serious compromises. Ron? Fill in the gaps for me and correct my errors.

Steel is malleable, cheap and way stronger than we would every need. (As is aluminum) Corrosion problems are mostly an issue of coatings, electrolysis control and half way decent maintenance.

That said, there is one big tradeoff that I have not seen solved to my satisfaction. As you scale down the thickness of the plating, it's resistance to denting is seriously reduced. Even on big ships you see where the fenders have distorted the hull between the frames with use.

With a hull like Rons, if the plating was made only strong enough to stand the loads from everything else but ignoring banging against fenders and docks, could probably be made of steel so thin you could barely weld it. You would need to glue it together!

So to design a decently dent resistant hull there is a serious weight penalty.''



You got it. The lighter it gets, the thinner it gets, but you don't need as big of a sledgehammer to make repairs. :lol:

I'd have no qualms building a Victorian style hull with steel. It's durable and cheap. Only need a mig welder and a plasma arc to cut the sheeting. There are several designs around for sheet plywood that can be easily converted to steel. 14 GA steel is strong enough and 3 pounds per square foot. Half inch marine ply is 1.6/sq ft but add fiberglass cloth closer to 2 lb. Steel hull winds up being around 30% heavier. But it's a steamboat, so the weight is not that important.

Steel construction is really fast with a mig welder and plasma.
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Lopez Mike
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Re: Modern History

Post by Lopez Mike » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:04 am

Interesting numbers. Thanks! I really agree with the fabrication advise you give. I never could weld worth sour apples until I got a decent MiG machine. Now maybe as good as wormy apples.

I still like wood, including plywood, better. For me, steel suffers from what I call the 'clank' factor. Too much like handling garbage cans when I drop a wrench and all that.

Also I don't agree about weight. The power to drive a hull is largely proportionate to the weight. Both form and surface drag go up with weight. I don't propose building ultralight launches with startling length to beam ratios for other reasons but every time I load up another passenger the fuel consumption climbs and the speed goes down. And those pounds are a drag to tow down the road (pun intended).

Steel makes far more sense in a boat like yours which isn't towed often. But for me, with a craft that spends much of its life in my back yard, I like stitch and glue.

Mike
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Re: Modern History

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:34 am

steel suffers from what I call the 'clank' factor.

Out of the water yes, in the water, more of a low tick than a loud clank. The water on the outside deadens the noise below the water line.

Yeah, I love wood boats, they're just a lot of labor and expense to build. I'm getting to where I don't want to mess with that epoxy any more. I saturated a whole wood car body took about two days, I was sick for about three days. The fumes aren't offensive but they're not good for ya.
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Re: Modern History

Post by Lopez Mike » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:05 am

That's so true about the epoxy issue. Lots of disposable gloves and face protection. And once you develop an allergic reaction you are there for life. Be careful!

It depends so much on your skill set as to whether you end up with a decent looking hull. The hull I just threw away was a text book case of garbage in, garbage out with a plywood hull. Junk plywood, junk workmanship. I bought the boat for the machinery. I was amazed that I got so many years out of it without it falling apart under me. It's now being used to haul cow shit on a nearby farm. It surpasses understanding why the builder spent even that much effort without any small attempt at style or workmanship. I named it Folly. The name has been retired.
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Re: Modern History

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:22 am

dampfspieler wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:16 am
Hi,

amazing. It is a very nice engine. Who built the boiler? What diameter have the fire tubes and what is the distance between them.

Good luck for the further work
Dietrich
Hi Dietrich,

Thank you. The boiler was built here in the US by Bourdon boiler. Very expensive.

The copper tubes are an odd size and there is a story behind that. They are 17/32" or .531" 13.49mm. 1/8" pipe slides right inside the tube. This goes back to George Whitney again, he ran the 1/8" pipe fuel line up one tube across and back down another tube to preheat the fuel to make it easier to vaporize, as 200 psi steam temperature is about perfect to vaporize fuel without cracking it and making carbon. I think most Stanley boilers still use that size tube but they don't route the fuel line like that anymore. That is where that odd size came from. It's like George Stephenson started using 4' 8-1/2" gauge for his railroad and it was never really changed. He copied the width off of a coal wagon in Manchester, and to this day it's still the worldwide standard. Isambard Brunel tried with a 7 foot gauge on his Great Western Railway but there was too much track already laid around the rest of the country to replace all of it, so the 7 foot gauge was dropped.

I will measure the distance between the tubes and let you know.

Ron
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Re: Modern History

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:34 am

"It's now being used to haul cow shit on a nearby farm.''

You certainly have a good handle on decommissioning. :lol:
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Re: Modern History

Post by Lopez Mike » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:39 am

Well, my neighbor lady wanted it to grow asparagus but she decided that it was too shoddy.

Mike
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Re: Modern History

Post by tom1356 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:26 pm

I do not know of any George E. Whitney designed boats still around. Allan Hay of Lynn Ma built the hulls for George to his designs. George made 95 boats. I have heard there is an original compound twin engine in the Winnipesaukee area. This might be the engine that castings were made from. The small triple engine in the Facebook post wasn’t for sale. That was a wanted ad for Whitney related items.
We will be putting that in a canoe at some point. Video below.

I am interested in acquiring any Geo E. Whitney related items.

https://www.facebook.com/alexander.karn ... 2639946261

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