cleaning engine pan?

For the non-technical side of living with Steamboats, videos and general pictures.
User avatar
Lopez Mike
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1903
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
Boat Name: S.L. Spiffy
Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by Lopez Mike » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:53 pm

I have an old cake pan under the engine and a layer of oilsorb with a nice about 1.5" hole near one end of the oilsorb sheet. At the end of the day I reach in there with the hose from my wet or dry shop vacuum and snarf out the water through the hole in the pad. When the oilsorb gets full of oil, I wring it out over my automotive oil change pan. When the pad gets too funky looking or I'm about to attend an event, I replace it as it is really cheap stuff.
If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
Dalai Lama
steamdon-jr
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:54 pm
Boat Name: SL Phoebe Snow
Location: Quakertown, PA
Contact:

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by steamdon-jr » Thu May 07, 2015 1:33 am

Ron,

I can hold about a half gallon in mine but the key is to slowly keep after it during the day....give a suck and squirt :lol:
User avatar
artemis
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 am
Boat Name: Pond Skimmer
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by artemis » Fri May 15, 2015 3:36 am

Any steamboater who pumps water with ANY oily residue from his/her steamboat into the waters upon which it floats should be boiled in his own boiler and buried with a 12" diameter Lunkenheimer whistle up his/her anus!
Ron Fossum
Steamboating Magazine Editor
http://www.steamboating.org
User avatar
fredrosse
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:34 am
Boat Name: Margaret S.
Location: Phila PA USA
Contact:

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by fredrosse » Fri May 15, 2015 12:44 pm

Oil into lakes and rivers is an event we all need to be mindful of. Bilge water will often have some oil, and the Oil-Sorb Pads are effective here, provided they are not too overloaded with waste oil.

Does anyone know of environmentally acceptable oils that are biodegradable and that could be discharged into the water? I would think things like Tallow, or various vegetable oils, castor oil, palm oil, etc. would be OK, but I do not know the rules here.

It would be good to know of some oils that would not bring environmental problems. Please let us know about this IF you have solid data. Telling the authorities that "I think this oil discharge is OK, Joe from the forum said he thought it was acceptable because he heard about it from a friend...." would not be the kind of information needed here.

Another point: Two Stroke Outboard Mix Oil. I know that stuff is petroleum oil mix, is discharged into the water, and there are millions of 2-stroke outboards in service. Yes, they will eventually be outlawed, but they spew many tons of oil directly into our waterways. For example, a 100 HP outboard will put 1 to 2 pounds of OIL into the exhaust every hour at full throttle. There are thousands of these boats running on the water as I write this. What are the regulations regarding these types of discharge?
User avatar
fredrosse
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1906
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:34 am
Boat Name: Margaret S.
Location: Phila PA USA
Contact:

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by fredrosse » Fri May 15, 2015 12:44 pm

Where does one find the actual Laws/Regulations Here?
User avatar
artemis
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 am
Boat Name: Pond Skimmer
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by artemis » Fri May 15, 2015 8:15 pm

fredrosse wrote:Where does one find the actual Laws/Regulations Here?
The primary governmental agency is the Federal EPA: check out their regulations for discharge:
http://www.epa.gov/oem/content/lawsregs/sheenovr.htm

Individual states vary some, but all must meet, at a minimum, EPA requirements. In Oregon its:
http://www.deq.state.or.us/lq/pubs/docs ... Chap13.pdf, which states at OAR 340: 340-142-0500:

"(1) Spills and releases, or threatened spills or releases of oil or hazardous materials as defined by OAR 340-142-0005(9) in quantities equal to or greater than the following amounts must be reported..."

"(b) If spilled or discharged into waters of the state or in a location from which it is likely to escape into waters of the state any quantity of oil that would produce a visible film, sheen, oily slick, oily solids, or coat aquatic life, habitat or property with oil, but excluding normal discharges from properly operating marine engines;"

Emptying an engine drain pan or discharging bilge water (pumping bilges) is not considered properly operating "marine engines."

Washington State DoE regulations are at; Sec.St.WA., Water Pollution: http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rul ... 0_041.html

And for those who claim little boats don't cause problems please note that ALL vessels that have a facility to dispose of human waste or "grey water" must have a holding tank and discharge it a facility designated for such purposes! Regulations apply to ALL boaters.

Most states have some sort of agency which implements EPA standards and creates special ones peculiar to their circumstances.

Until we start colonizing off world planets, this dirtball is all we've got. We better take care of it! Period!

Don't know about other nations.

Post Scriptus: The oil discharge from outboards (and other marine engines) is there for the same reason that "SkeeDoo"s are still making wakes close to swimming areas -- follow the money.
Ron Fossum
Steamboating Magazine Editor
http://www.steamboating.org
User avatar
Lopez Mike
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1903
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 am
Boat Name: S.L. Spiffy
Location: Lopez Island, Washington State, USA

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by Lopez Mike » Fri May 15, 2015 10:42 pm

No 'SkeeDoos' in my county. You should have heard the stuck pig squeal when we passed that ordinance. "The end of the world is upon us!!!"

What I want is a nation wide water speed limit (in knots) of 1.5 times the square root of the water line length in feet. Exceptions for organized and permitted competitions and emergency vehicles.

Won't happen in this universe but I sure get people riled up when I propose it.
If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
Dalai Lama
User avatar
artemis
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 am
Boat Name: Pond Skimmer
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by artemis » Sat May 16, 2015 6:13 pm

:!: For those who must be "led to water", please "drink" from this publication from the Oregon Marine Board:

http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/Clean/pages/clean_tips.aspx

Please read it all and remember to boat responsibly. Washington State's Regulations are very similar to Oregon's and most statees in the USA have something similar. If you live outside the USA, find out what your local or regional boat cleanliness regulations are.

Please keep our waterways clean and healthy. Dead fish floating on the surface not only do not look nice, their odor is offensive (and they may foul your propeller or plug your fresh water intake) :!:
Ron Fossum
Steamboating Magazine Editor
http://www.steamboating.org
User avatar
DetroiTug
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:56 pm
Boat Name: Iron Chief
Location: Northwest Detroit

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by DetroiTug » Mon May 18, 2015 11:48 am

Its highly doubtful any hobby steamboater is emitting more oil than a typical powerboater. Four cycle engines emit some oil and even unburnt fuel out the exhaust. True steam cylinder oil like the Sapon types containing tallow are soluble in water and why they cannot be used in condensing systems as they are impossible to isolate in the hotwell.

The paper referenced above is contradictory. It says "any amount of oil" that will produce a sheen, then goes on to say "excluding properly running outboard motors". This was written by someone that took a bit of evidence and transformed it into a dangerous situation. It's meant to scare and drive home a point, but is sorely lacking in any real information. The thrust is aimed at criminal activities involving illegal dumping. According to that paper, less than 42 gallons of oil dumped on the ground, they don't even want to know about it. i.e. don't call us.

I lived right on a lake for 14 years that seen mostly outboard motor types of propulsion. After a busy weekend there were areas along the downwind shore with evidence of oily foam. This went on season after season, year after year. Two things happened with it. First, it had no noticeable environmental impact. Secondly, it always disappeared. I think the sun burns it up. Go to any heavily used inland water and look for damage caused by normal outboard motor usage, there isn't any.

I'm not advocating that we should be irresponsible in handling oil near waterways. Accidentally or inadvertently releasing small amounts of oil is not the end of the world. Be responsible, but let's not blow it out of proportion.

Sorry to get all philosophical, but one of the great delusions of man is that he is somehow in charge of and responsible for the planet. The facts and probabilities are, he has almost zero control of it and it was here long before him and it will be here long after he's gone.

-Ron
Steamboat Mike
Steam on Deck
Steam on Deck
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:27 pm
Boat Name: Catawissa
Location: Sweetwater, New Jersey

Re: cleaning engine pan?

Post by Steamboat Mike » Fri May 29, 2015 10:24 am

My guiding principle has always been that "oil is cheap (relatively) and engines are expensive (very)". As a result I have always used lots of oil in a wick feed drip system. The concept of "total loss lubrication system" became very clear.

The only responsible thing to do to keep this oil out of the river and the bilges is to have a deep engine pan to catch the runoff. This keeps the bilges oil free and avoids that old, moldy musty boat smell. At first I used a small hand Jabsco plunger pump, the brass cylinder, red rubber end cap one that all boat stores have. This was mounted in the pan and pumped to a two gallon bucket with a cover to avoid slopping. I would take this bucket home, pour it into another bucket with a small needle valve on the bottom, let it settle for a while then crack the valve and let it drip very slowly. When the water was gone the oil would not pass through the valve. I would then burn the oil in the wood stove in the shop. The water was clear and had no sheen at all. This went on the flower garden. This was just about OK except for the fact that the bucket would sometimes fill up at the most inopportune time, far from home. The biggest objection was that it was a lot of work and subject to sloppy errors.
I had read about our British cousins who pipe the yuck water to the ash pan to evaporate. I was never quite sure what happened to the oil but it seemed like an interesting idea. I had also read someone's suggestion to use small amounts of water scooped from the lake to tame a roaring fire when coming in to the dock. I found to my surprise that it is really difficult to put out a wood fire with water. Combining these two concepts I evolved the idea of using a hand differential pump that auto mechanics use to remove and replace the oil in the rear axles of cars and trucks. It looks like the barrel of a hand grease gun but has a hand operated plunger instead of the force pump. Your local Naptha Auto Parts store has them. It has a flexible snout that gets into the engine pan and sucks up the good stuff. This I then take to the firebox and squirt vigorously into the fire. The water turns to steam at once and the oil burns right after that. The pump holds about a pint of liquid, even with five or six squirts it seems to have very little lasting effect on the fire and steam production. The only down side is the momentary time travel to the 1950's and the smell of an engine that needs new piston rings. This passes at once and the yuck is reprocessed onboard on an as needed basis, clean engine pan and spotless bilges. This has been the system on the Catawissa for the last fifteen years.
Oil is really the smallest part of the "pan liquor", most of it is water. Sometimes we will run for hours with no accumulation and others it seems to be an endless fount of nasty water to be dealt with. I like the direct disposal of the stuff and the lack of need for consumable supplies this system entails.
Happy steaming, Steamboat Mike
Post Reply