Old video on a Steam Tug

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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by Kelly Anderson » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:51 pm

That tug boat engine has four cranks! It appears to be a double compound to me, with the LP cylinders in between the HP's. Anyway, that is a big tug boat to sport an engine like that. I wonder if the wheel house is a set. No window frames?
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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by TahoeSteam » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:04 pm

I noticed that also Kelly. Each compound set of cranks seem to be at 180°. They're 90° offset from the other compound, with double piston valves on the LP's.

Windowless wheelhouse seemed strange to me too.

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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by DetroiTug » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:01 pm

When I think about and sketch a modern steam vehicles that is the engine design I would use. Two hp's in the middle clocked at 90 for easy forward and reverse and two lp's outboard.

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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by fredrosse » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:58 pm

I worked at Electric Boat - General Dynamics for a few years, and only had knowledge of radial single acting steam (or products of combustion, or decomposing Hydrogen peroxide) engines, or steam turbines for propulsion historically. When I worked there in the 1960s-1970s torpedoes were electric as far as I knew. I had lots of lessons from old timers (WWII people) that there were torpedoes that had 10,000 horsepower and went 115 knots. Control was not possible, and they had to tone down output by replacing Oxygen with Air. Replacing Hydrogen with Alcohol, then Kerosene later. An interesting history, from the original "motor torpedo", using just compressed air in the late 1800s, to combustion types with far better range and speed. I have no idea what they use today.
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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by fredrosse » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:02 pm

Ron, what do you think about the McCullough Steam Automobile project of the early 1950s. Doble worked on this, and I would think that engine was a well optimized engine.
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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by Lopez Mike » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:47 am

Above a certain speed and above a certain depth, a torpedo hits a limit of usability due to cavitation noise. Not just the prop but the torpedo itself moving through the water. Say we are thinking about firing at a surface ship. Even if we have the shot stay deep until relatively late in the run, the hull cavitation commotion as the torp comes up through maybe a few hundred feet will make all acoustical guidance completely useless. That shot will make a racket that will mess up a whole ocean basin!

I used to drive a limited hydroplane and the super cavitating props we used could be heard from on shore. Actually kill fish without hitting them.

I have doubts that any torpedo will every be developed that greatly exceeds 60 knots for these basic reasons.

Of course I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife.
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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by TahoeSteam » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:14 pm

Fred,

I tried to do a web search for that steam automobile and only got a bunch of links for a steam cleaner. Do you have more information?
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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by DetroiTug » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:44 pm

Wes, the spelling probably threw your search off, it's McCulloch Steam Automobile project.

Fred, I don't know much about that Era of steam. The reason I've never studied much about their efforts is they all start out on the wrong foot. They concentrate on the power plant and control system with the intention of retrofitting it to a vehicle designed for an entirely different engine system, this is mostly the result of the grantors stipulating guidelines. The Doble touring cars weighed three tons, that weight Kills any chance of any sort of high efficiency. There is an important aspect to success and that is marketability and some level of practicality, none of them qualified, successful or not, as history clearly shows.

A practical modern steam vehicle capable of highway speeds, and near fuel efficiency of their I/C rival, needs to be designed and built from the ground up with that sole intent. That means lightweight, aluminum tubular frame, carbon fiber body, streamlining, much of the body exterior would act as condenser surface, boiler exhaust routed around the finned cylinder portion of the double compound engine to mitigate thermal loss and further expansion, insulated water storage with electric heater to prevent freezing, a computer controlled flash boiler steam plant which evacuates near freezing. Remote start that replenishes the plant and builds steam in a few minutes. All of this is doable.

On a more far fetched note. All thats need to make steam is heat, that's it. There are other ways besides fossils fuels and nuclear, like the toxic substances and chemicals we poison the earth with, if they could be handled in safe cells, combined to make heat, which would also neutralize them..

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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by TriangleTom » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:48 pm

Lopez Mike wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:47 am
Above a certain speed and above a certain depth, a torpedo hits a limit of usability due to cavitation noise. Not just the prop but the torpedo itself moving through the water. Say we are thinking about firing at a surface ship. Even if we have the shot stay deep until relatively late in the run, the hull cavitation commotion as the torp comes up through maybe a few hundred feet will make all acoustical guidance completely useless. That shot will make a racket that will mess up a whole ocean basin!

I used to drive a limited hydroplane and the super cavitating props we used could be heard from on shore. Actually kill fish without hitting them.

I have doubts that any torpedo will every be developed that greatly exceeds 60 knots for these basic reasons.

Of course I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife.
The Russians have actually developed a torpedo that beats 60 knots.... by a factor of 3.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

Of course, rockets do change the game somewhat.
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Re: Old video on a Steam Tug

Post by Lopez Mike » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:30 pm

Great link. Thanks.

All of which doesn't change the fact that in addition to not being able to navigate acoustically due to it's own commotion, it announces it's presence to everyone within hundreds of miles. Talk about a great target for the opposing forces own countermeasures. Someone fires one of these screamers at you? Fire a regular torp down its throat. No deflection and it comes to meet you. Should be hard to miss.

And cheap to make too. Ha!

Sounds like another thermonuclear hand grenade. Kill radius of a mile but you can only throw it ten feet.

This has to be the classic theft of a thread. Sorry. I'll back away. Interesting though.
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