Flying a (steaming) kite

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PeteThePen1
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by PeteThePen1 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:35 pm

I seem to recall that John King, who has designed the boilers mentioned earlier, has specified Cunifer 10 which he has said is very heat tolerant. I don't recall where he wrote that, so cannot give you chapter and verse. Probably in Funnel somewhere.

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DetroiTug
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by DetroiTug » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:55 pm

Quote. "convert my PDF drawing of the tubesheet into proper CNC cutting code, a task that took them far longer than machine setup and cutting. Then they made the two tubesheets, all for the total price of $58US. ''

Amish folks? Some of the carriage parts I've used came from them over there in PA. Full elliptical leaf springs with eight leaves for sixty dollars a piece. I went to a regular spring place and they wanted 1000 each.

-Ron
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by DetroiTug » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:08 pm

PeteThePen1 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:35 pm
I seem to recall that John King, who has designed the boilers mentioned earlier, has specified Cunifer 10 which he has said is very heat tolerant. I don't recall where he wrote that, so cannot give you chapter and verse. Probably in Funnel somewhere.

Pete
Cunifer would be fine for boiler tube. It will withstand immense pressure and temperatures to around 2000 degrees. I've tested it as fuel vaporizer tubing and it worked satisfactorily, however, I wouldn't suggest it for that service as failure can be a significant event.
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fredrosse
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by fredrosse » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:02 pm

"Amish folks? "

Actually, Amish folks are a small sub-set of the Mennonites, who have several groups that reject several aspects of modern life. The Amish don't use electricity, or zippers, automobiles, trucks, etc, and I don't know any who do metal fabrication as a business, although many of this group make horse buggy wheels for sale. The range of groups who call themselves Mennonite range all the way to what one might call "Conventional Christians", maybe going to church occasionally, and even voting in elections!

Prevalent in my area of Pennsylvania:

The Mennonite group called "Black Bumper Mennonites" (they used to paint the bumpers and trim of their cars black, back when original car bumpers were chromed), nothing fancy, no radio, no TV, etc. I have had houses built by them, excellent work.

Then there are the "35ers", another Mennonite group, who, among other things, reject rubber tires, (too modern), not unusual to see a new $100,000 John Deere farm tractor.... with steel wheels all around!

Not sure the exact Mennonite group who own the shop that cut my tubesheets, but they certainly give good service.

I belong to a very small group, "New Wave Mennonites", we don't seek entertainment, but if it comes our way......
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by DetroiTug » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:36 pm

I'm familiar with them having worked around them for several years. "Amish'' is sort of a generic term for all of them where that was in the south. I've been in their houses etc. Definitely strange living standards, but if you spend a lot of time with them, you'll find out they are not much different than anyone else. I figured at those prices it had to be them. Shops like mine that have to pay all taxes,collect state Sales tax, buy all the insurances, pay employees a fair wage and pay their associated costs plus shop rent wouldn't touch that job for less than 300. 😀 I had some of them over in PA stitch the patent leather on my fender irons which is difficult and requires a special sewing machine, material and labor was 27 dollars each.
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by cyberbadger » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:31 pm

fredrosse wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:02 pm
The Amish don't use electricity, or zippers, automobiles, trucks, etc, and I don't know any who do metal fabrication as a business, although many of this group make horse buggy wheels for sale.
The Amish are very complicated.

On the East Coast the best traction engine boiler fabrication is Jonas Stutzman (JS Stutzman Co) in Middlefield Ohio.

His attention to detail is so prized that you pay a high premium and I think he's always got 5 years of customers and work. Johanas's shop is an ASME shop, it also does full size locomotive work.

I have been to his complex/shop in Middlefield.

Imagine a bridgeport vertical milling machine converted to run on a hydraulic motor because electric motors are against their beliefs. (Don't ask how they get the hydraulic oil pressurized to run that hydraulic motor)

Also the lighting in the shop included natural gas lighting fixtures.

I thought of having him build Nyitra's Boiler, but the price would have easily been double.

-CB
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by fredrosse » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:35 pm

I don't know about how Jonas powers the Bridgeport, but I know of a Mennonite woodworking factory near me that has converted all their power tools to compressed air. They use a Diesel engine driving an air compressor to run everything, therefore no electricity is used.
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by DetroiTug » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:36 am

Air starter on the diesel? That lifestyle is just silly. then there is the dreaded static electricity. 😄
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by dampfspieler » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:59 am

Hello,
... Air starter on the diesel
why not? It is the normal procedure at german WWII-submarines and russian tanks like T55 and T72. The pressure of the air starting system was up to 300 bar (4,200 psi) and it works well everytime.

For a strong man there is also an other procedure possible - to start the engine with a hand crank.

The procedure is shown in this video - https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc

Its description "Durch einen Schwungradantrieb musste eine Schwungmasse im Anlasser auf eine Drehzahl von 10.000 U/min gebracht werden. Hierzu musste die Handkurbel mit 70 U/min gedreht werden." - A flywheel drive had to bring a flywheel mass in the starter to a speed of 10,000 rpm. To do this, the crank handle had to be turned at 70 rpm.

It is a bit "off topic" for finding a good boiler concept for a small steam boat but interesting to hear.

Best Dietrich
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Re: Flying a (steaming) kite

Post by TahoeSteam » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:03 pm

I know a a very late response to this topic but here goes... I'll add some of my insight as a "young folk" and a member of "the generation who shall not be named"

The "Forward" (all are generalities and considered the norm for the aforementioned generation):

They don't have a lot of free time. The expenses we pay just for the basics (food, shelter, etc) are a greater percentage of income than they were even 20 years ago. This is fact. Add incredible student debt to those that went the ed-u-ma-kated route and even their "college degree" incomes don't go anywhere near as far as they once did. Many also have to travel further for the "well paying" jobs, so there are hours each day devoted just to seat time in a car or metal tube in the sewers.

All that being said, many have to work more hours to make ends meet, have less disposable time and income to devote to hobbies, have less space to put all the toys and the associated restrictions that tag alongside their "space" (suburbia means postage stamp-sized lots and restrictive CC&R's or HOA's with nosy busybody neighbors breathing down one's neck)...

So here's what I propose:

-Watertube boiler
Fast steaming.
Forgiving for the novice.
Most are esily made in non-weld format.
Lightweight for those having to tow with something less than a 3/4ton diesel pickup truck.
Smaller footprint in relation to power output for those socialites that want more room for insta-influencers onboard.

I personally like Ofeldts because they have a small footprint, can be made to look like a traditional VFT, tubes can be bent and rolled in relatively easily, and any fuel will do. Gasket-ed and bolted heads (bottom with a heat shield of course) much like the John King watertubes.

If one was to pull the trigger on a VFT, might as well go with a Kingdon style submerged-tube type with a waterleg for a bit more. Bigger safety margin with submerged tubes and better steam production.

If someone had an engine designed that could be machined fully or nearly fully on CNC equipment from castings or billet, that would be the icing on the cake.

I envision something like one of the kits from www.steamtractionworld.co.uk

One could receive bits with a scheme of payment in installments. It eases the strain on required equipment and shop space.
~Wesley Harcourt~
Check out the steamboat and steamSHIP videos on my YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/c/wesleyharcourtsteamandmore
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