Sternwheeler Dragonfly

[Richard Orr]

In response to a query about my boat:
The Dragonfly is a 36' (stem to sternpost) x 10' x 2-1/2' sternwheeler. L.a.w.l. 29'. It has a flat bottomed, scow bowed, rectal liniar pontoon hull, designed on the principal that (when operating in calm waters) it is more effecient to run a hull over the water than through it. It has a very fine entry and exit angle -bordering on almost too fine an exit for a sternwheeler which should give it minimal drag but require the engine to be carried ten feet forward of the stern. It is designed to operate on the calm waters of a lagoon I onced lived on in Belize.
The engine is a 5 x 7.5 double acting stationary, circa 1903 or 8. It came to me as a claped out centerline with a bent crank and broken flywheel. Now it is a fully machined overhung with ball, roller and needle bearings through out except for the eccentric. The slide valve is now ballanced, the crosshead slippers babbited and redesigned for positive adjustment.
Reversing mechanism is a contrivance of my own design, a slip eccentric that will shift on the fly. I have on the black board a sprocket de-clutcher composed of one moving part but have yet to fabricate it.
Reciprocating feed pump and recirculater are nearly complete and are adjustable while underway. Sternwheel will be roller chain drive.
Well there it is, at least in part. there is quie qa story behind the making of this boat, an epic, life defining journey --- but that, some other time.

[87gn@tahoe]

Sounds very interesting.. Quite the boat. Are you going to be running it in Belize?

I take it that you're still up in the air in regards to the boiler.

Do you have any pictures?

[Richard Orr]

Seasons Greetings Wesley.
Saw some video of you climbing that pine? There's a lot of advanced gear that is being used by arborists now.I tried a metal cored, cam controlled flip line once - not supposed to slip but it did. It's been old school gear for me ever since but the new techniques are interesting.
Belize is the first option, but we are considering all points south. I began building the Dragonfly some twelve years ago. Went and cleared a deal with the Belizian minister of tourism just before 9-11 but got so buisy I did not keep up contact. I kinda take it for granted that when boat is done we will be welcome any where down there.
Boat is schedualed to be completed in one more year and after many delays through out, I am really pushing to make this goal on time. Much of the design going into the Dragonfly has revolved around the idea of opperating in the third world. And so I want a simple, screw togather boiler. This is an eyebrow raiser, I know but down there k.i.s.s. is king.
I have given much thought to monotube boilers and conclude that most of the control issues involved with monotubes stem from the fact that they are designed for high output/low volume. I reason that if one goes for high water volume/low heating surface area, operates on saturated steam, recirculates the water and has a slow moving ,high volume feed pump, the nature of a monotube should settle down conciderably. I believe I have come up with a simple design where-by the economizer can be isolated from the gases of combustion and the water there-in can drain down to the generater tubes and act as a buffer should the feed pump fail or the load change drasticly. When the Dragonfly is done we will take a lil' steam up the Mississippi via. the Tom Biggby. I hear the lower Mississipp is not for amatures.
We are soon to get the gear to enable us to put pictures on line. Richard

[87gn@tahoe]

I use the "micro grab" on my flipline all the time, I think it might be a refined design from the one you used. We actually climbed that Jeffery using SRT (single rope technique). Do you do much climbing?

I think the design that Bart referred to that was derived from Herreshoff would ba a good alternative to a conventional monotube.. I think there is a drawing of it in Steamboats and Modern Steam Launches, I think it was the boiler used in the "Stiletto".

Being a caretaker of a "conventional" monotube I can tell you that the controls are quite complicated and involve materials that would probably not be readily avaiable in Belize.

I would be intereted in more info on what your boiler entails...

Is your engine a verticle single or a horizontal?

Also, you may want to superheat the steam a bit, as that long run from the boiler to the engine would cause bit of condensation even with superheated steam.

wes

[Richard Orr]

Hello Wesley
Yea, it looked like you were ascending with some kind of foot gear? I have worked alone and for myself for many years, using a multiple ribbon line technigue to tie off and release all cuts that needed to be controlled. We had an ice storm early this season and I took to hiring a friend as a groundsman mostly to get him some work. I used to have to pull everything I needed up into the tree as I went up, now I am spoiled.
The engine is an upright wih a beautifully tapered iron frame. Thought about making a lighter frame but couldn't do it's antiquity and beauty such an injusice She's heavy -750pds. when I got her and I've probably added a few pounds when I built the overhung bed plate. The flywheel is 150 pds. and four foot in dia. Because of it's large size and the fact that it will be helped along by the momentum of he sternwheel, I doubt the engine will ever get cought in dead centers, but if it does that flywheel will be easy to grab.
How many square feet of heating surface does your monotube have? What size of tubing? What pressure do you run at? How much super heat?
Imagine you're quite right about the need for some super heat for such a long run of pipe,even if insulated - probably about 50 degrees hay?
I imagine that a conventional monotube, flashing superheated steam as it's end product is a different animal to control compared to a Lamont.
I have been having trouble submiting posts so I will submit this as is and resume writing more about boiler if thisbpost is sucessful.

[Richard Orr]

My boiler will be at least 150 sq. ft. The generating tubes exposed to radiant heat will be about 50 sq.ft. of 1 or 1.25 sched. 80 black pipe running horrizontally and surrounding the fire box on 4 sides. All thread ends will be outside and isolated from the firebox. Fire box will be 1-1/2 ft. wide, 2 ft. 4 in. high and 6 ft. long. Primary source of fuel will be river cane.
In the design that I have in mind, it is hard to destinguish where the economizer ends and the rest of the tubes that are exposed to convection begin. 4oo liniar ft. of 1 in. copper tubing will sit on top and at the end of the fire box and pancake spiral down in a counerflow arrangement but without bringing the end of each spiral up and over the top of each pancake.
The gravity issue with the flow of water will be taken care of at the outlet end of the generating tubes by having the bitter end rise up slightly above the same level of the pancakes and then dump into a steam seperater. This creates a self regulated flooded system, an option that I believe a recirculating design allows. There is a vacume issue to design around at the inlet of the economizer but, that being done, the economizer will act as a back up storage and level out fluctuations of load simply by partially draining down into the generating tubes. By placing the pancake spirals outside of and on top of fire box it opens up the option of drawing a plate underneith the the entire pancake system and isolate it from all gasses, re-routing said gasses up through a center flu. this approach would instantly take the entire convection part of the system off line, leaving it subject only to residual heat and the heat of conduction. This also could be minimized by insulating the sliding plate.
Well, there it is. Hope it was laid down clear enough to follow
Richard

[87gn@tahoe]

We were using a single static line, a single Petzel ascender with a foot strap and a prusik hitch(I was using a blake's hitch) attached to the haness.. Sit down with the prusik (or blakes) holding you in place, slide the ascender up as far as you can go, stand on the strap, slide your hitch up as far as you can, sit and repeat. I use the SRT for any tree we're trimming, then a regular flipline and gaffs for removals.. My boss is really oldschool and uses his flipline and gaffs for everything He still uses a 3-hole plate for adjusting his flipline also.

I work for a tree service with muliple groundsmen/swampers. It sure is nice to have someone on the ground to untangle your line, move slash, send gear up, etc.. I couldn't imagine doing it alone.

Now, as far as my boiler goes;

The boiler is a "once through" monocoil, ASME approved design and materials. Natural draught, 21sq.ft./heating surface, 150psi, 450F, 200 lbs/hr. Controls similar principles to Doble "normalizer" control system. Vaporizing kerosene burner, modulated by steam pressure. Steam temperature controlled by quartz rod thermostat. Weight-220lbs

I *think* the tubing is 1/2" OD, but I have not taken a set of calipers to measure the OD exactly.

Your design sounds quite feasible, I imagine the large ID of the tubing will allow you to run pretty crummy water without too much issue, though you may not see as much "performance" out of it as you would with a mono' of similar sqft but smaller ID tubing.. It's all a trade-off. The more water you have, the slower it will react, and the easier it will be to control. Six of one, half a dozen of another.

Are you going to be condensing? Will you have a source down there for boiler water treatment?

[Richard Orr]

Gaffs for pruning a healthy tree - ouch, but not uncommon around here either.

Back in the sixties there were very few boats with monotubee boilers. I'm getting the idea that the control technology is getting worked out pretty well. Did you have any trouble with bugs in the system when you first put it together?

Yes, I will be running condensing of necesity. The lagoons in the tropics can be very brackish especially during the dry season. I have seen such high levels of plancton that at night the rooster tail from the outboard glowed bright enough to read by. Also, the Maya Mountains have a lot of limeston in them. Chuffing would indeed be great down there. There is a spell that comes over one after about a month or so. I call it "the manana spirit" - no hurrys, no worrys. And that feeling mixed with the rythem of the chuffing would surely turn time into rubber. But I doubt that an open loop system is doable in such waters.

Your question about boiler treatment is a good one that I haven't yet turned my mind to. When a person wants something that isn't available down there, they get someone stateside to mail it, or go through the Menonite connection that home quarters at a place called Spanish Lookout.

What kind of cylinder lubrication do you use and what is your method of straining it out?

[Richard Orr]

Gaffs for pruning a healthy tree - ouch, but not uncommon around here either.

Back in the sixties there were very few boats with monotubee boilers. I'm getting the idea that the control technology is getting worked out pretty well. Did you have any trouble with bugs in the system when you first put it together?

Yes, I will be running condensing of necesity. The lagoons in the tropics can be very brackish especially during the dry season. I have seen such high levels of plancton that at night the rooster tail from the outboard glowed bright enough to read by. Also, the Maya Mountains have a lot of limeston in them. Chuffing would indeed be great down there. There is a spell that comes over one after about a month or so. I call it "the manana spirit" - no hurrys, no worrys. And that feeling mixed with the rythem of the chuffing would surely turn time into rubber. But I doubt that an open loop system is doable in such waters.

Your question about boiler treatment is a good one that I haven't yet turned my mind to. When a person wants something that isn't available down there, they get someone stateside to mail it, or go through the Menonite connection that home quarters at a place called Spanish Lookout.

What kind of cylinder lubrication do you use and what is your method of straining it out?

[87gn@tahoe]

Oh, I did not put the boat together myself. She was designed and built by Mr. William Charles Grosjean of Poway, California. He was an engineer for Solar Turbine in San Diego, CA, so you can imagine how meticulous he was in designing the boat and machinery.

He told me that there were MANY hiccups, setbacks, and headaches in the designing, building, and initial operation of the plant.

I have to follow the startup instructions to the "T", if I deviate from them at all the plant takes forever to get going, if it does at all.. I learned the hard way the first time I ran her on the water (B&W steamboat meet, 2004). I was cursing that boat till I was blue in the face, but once I shut her down and started from scratch, using the instructions as a guide, she ran like a scalded cat.

Now, kowing how "picky" she can be, I can only imagine how long it must have taken Mr. Grosjean to get the starting procedure correct as he didn't have any guidelines to follow.

The "controls" are not a new concept by any means, but are derived from the works of Doble and White (of steam car fame). If you would like information on the controls, I can send it to you for the cost of shipping if you PM or email me your address.. There is another member on here that was also interested (you were not forgotten!) and I have just found most, if not all of the files.

Cylinder lubrication is accomplished with regular steam cylinder oil, intermittently admitted into the main steam line. I am not a fan of the current lubricator as it only works when the main steam is shut off. The oil is seperated in the hotwell, which has only one baffle and is filled with oilsorb pads.. I replace the pads after about five cruises. I am considering switching to colloidal graphite (i have just found the funnels with that info also!), but am still "up in the air" about how to administer it.

wes