Nuts and Bolts

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
racerfrank
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Nuts and Bolts

Post by racerfrank » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:01 pm

I am in the process of building an engine. I am ready to buy some nuts, bolts, studs and my question is this.

I know like material like aluminum when threaded together will gall together like they have been internally welded(witch is really what happens). I would like to use stainless steel studs and stainless nuts. Will stainless studs and nuts gall together? Is there a way to avoid it?

Thanks in advance

Frank
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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by swedtug » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:18 am

aluminium on aluminium would be unusual, but whit out the right lube it would gall like it vas no tomorrow
and like vise on Stainless on Stainless, it works but requires the right lube. i use grafite on Stainless and alu, i prefear steel on any bolt
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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by Kelly Anderson » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:22 am

I have used stainless nuts and studs on my engine with no problems. I use Permatex Anti-Seize available from any auto parts store.
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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by Cyruscosmo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:51 am

Hey Frank

I am not as far as you yet but I do use a lot of stainless studs in aluminum where I work. I set the studs into the pump housings with a good coat of lock tight. I use stainless nuts on those studs to hold the flanges in place and they all get a good coat anti seize. I have never had a stainless nut and stud lock together and if I need the stud out of the aluminum block I heat the stud with a propane torch and it comes right out. The lock tight keeps water from getting in and corroding the threads and when heated the stud yields easily.

I have never tried this for anything that is continually under the water line but some of the chemicals we use are far worse than saltwater and I have "so far" not had a stainless stud and nut gal together.

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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by mtnman » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:13 pm

Cyruscosmo wrote:Hey Frank

I am not as far as you yet but I do use a lot of stainless studs in aluminum where I work. I set the studs into the pump housings with a good coat of lock tight. I use stainless nuts on those studs to hold the flanges in place and they all get a good coat anti seize. I have never had a stainless nut and stud lock together and if I need the stud out of the aluminum block I heat the stud with a propane torch and it comes right out. The lock tight keeps water from getting in and corroding the threads and when heated the stud yields easily.

I have never tried this for anything that is continually under the water line but some of the chemicals we use are far worse than saltwater and I have "so far" not had a stainless stud and nut gal together.

Cyruscosmo
The only reason you've never had a SS to SS gal is the coating of never seize(good stuff btw). Dry stainless will gal.
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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by Maltelec » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:52 pm

I have found these to go well together:

Stainless nut onto Stainless thread, fine. E.g. for engine columns.

Stainless nut onto Steel & BZP Steel. E.g. most common nuts and bolts.

BZP Steel nuts onto BZP Steel threads clamping onto aluminium. E.g. an Aluminium cover plate. *Note that Stainless and Aluminium do not go well together!

Brass nut large fine thread onto Stainless thread. E.g. Prop shaft.

Stainless grub screw - Also works in Aluminium pulleys if you use plenty of grease as the water and air can't get to it.

Brass bolt with Stainless nut - Excellent combination for low-tensile strength but looking good nut and bolt.

Stainless Allen key countersunk bolt - ideal for holding down metal or wooden panels. Can covered in mud and you can always dig the holes out to get the allen key in.

Also note that A2 Stainless is not good for dirty water as it will tarnish and go rusty. A4 stainless is best as this will remain shiny.
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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by Lopez Mike » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:17 am

For stateside readers:

For A4 stainless, read 300 series
For A2 stainless, read 400 series

As a loose rule, the A2/400 series are slightly magnetic. The A4/300 series, not so.

I have had quite a number of seizure issues with stainless on stainless when I neglected lubrication. It doesn't take much lubrication though.
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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by Cyruscosmo » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:39 pm

mtnman wrote: The only reason you've never had a SS to SS gal is the coating of never seize(good stuff btw). Dry stainless will gal.
I would not say that I have “never” had an SS to SS gal before. In fact when I rebuilt my first car I got the bright idea ( I was 17) to use ALL stainless steel nuts and bolts so everything would look really nice. Six or so months later I had my first accident and needed to remove the front clip and found that most of the SS nuts and bolts had become more like hot set rivets... Well... Exactly like hot set rivets. After the shop mechanic at the local Napa got done laughing he told me about anti-seize, he said if your gonna use stainless for anything use this. He even gave me my first bottle free. So I learned the hard way.

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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by DetroiTug » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:10 pm

Although Stainless holds up quite well in adverse conditions, Stainless steel turnbuckles with stainless barrel and end pieces will seize up over time without lubrication. If it can oxidize, it can seize up. Some Stainless steels will even develop red rusting just like regular steel. I lost $5 on that bet. Hung a piece of low quality (probably 03) Stainless in a salt water aquarium and in a bout two months it began rusting away.

Similar metals tend to gall to one another anyway as neither will yield to the other. Bronze bushings on steel shafting?

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Re: Nuts and Bolts

Post by Lopez Mike » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:44 pm

One of the things I did when I was in the tropics on my sailboat was to 'lubricate' my turnbuckles with lanolin. Not that lanolin is such a great lubricant but it is almost completely immune to being washed away by water. They never seized up on me.

It all seemed very logical at the time but now that I think about it a bit more, it seems like there is a flaw in that scheme.

The issue with S.S. in many marine applications is oxygen starvation. There needs to be a fairly constant supply of oxygen to repair or maintain the chromium oxide layer at the surface which is all that makes S.S. so resistant to destruction. If there is any abrasion that breaks the oxide layer and there is no oxygen to reform that layer, horrid things happen and fairly rapidly.

It worked but I guess that it worked because there was little if any abrasion. Dunno.
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