engine bit's missing

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
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ivan the terrible
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engine bit's missing

Post by ivan the terrible » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:50 pm

Hello again
As a complete newbie can you knowledgeable people help me with the following
20210918_135638.jpg
It's a pump but what for?
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rear view
20210918_135648.jpg (133.47 KiB) Viewed 3997 times
warning may be grumpy :lol: 8-)
ivan the terrible
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Re: engine bit's missing

Post by ivan the terrible » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:55 pm

And also
there's obviously something missing I'm guessing it's another pump but again what for?
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20210918_135704.jpg (99.9 KiB) Viewed 3996 times
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20210918_135731.jpg (123.77 KiB) Viewed 3996 times
20210918_135751.jpg
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warning may be grumpy :lol: 8-)
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Kelly Anderson
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Re: engine bit's missing

Post by Kelly Anderson » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:23 pm

The first pump is the boiler feed water pump. The roller chain needs to be mounted on the sprocket on the crankshaft. The brass pipe is the delivery to the boiler.

As far as the cam on the crankshaft and the adjoining bracket, I'm going to speculate that a cam operated gas engine fuel pump was mounted there to act as an air pump. The late Issac Harter advocated that system in Live Steam magazine back in the 1970's.
71fa8pTpQTL._AC_SS450_.jpg
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It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work.
ivan the terrible
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Boat Name: Pricilla/Alice
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Re: engine bit's missing

Post by ivan the terrible » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:47 pm

Kelly Anderson wrote: โ†‘
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:23 pm
The first pump is the boiler feed water pump. The roller chain needs to be mounted on the sprocket on the crankshaft. The brass pipe is the delivery to the boiler.

As far as the cam on the crankshaft and the adjoining bracket, I'm going to speculate that a cam operated gas engine fuel pump was mounted there to act as an air pump. The late Issac Harter advocated that system in Live Steam magazine back in the 1970's.

71fa8pTpQTL._AC_SS450_.jpg
thanks for the reply I did think it might be the BFP but wasn't sure I thought it might be air or vacuum pump as it has a rather large piston.
I did workout the chain drive bit ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜ฃ (it was connected I took it off as I didn't want to run it dry)

and as for the cam I did think another pump but wasn't sure what for but the lift pump idea is a good shout, could it be for condenser I wonder.
thanks again
warning may be grumpy :lol: 8-)
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Kelly Anderson
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Re: engine bit's missing

Post by Kelly Anderson » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:44 pm

ivan the terrible wrote: โ†‘
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:47 pm
thanks for the reply I did think it might be the BFP but wasn't sure I thought it might be air or vacuum pump as it has a rather large piston.
I did workout the chain drive bit ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜ฃ (it was connected I took it off as I didn't want to run it dry)

and as for the cam I did think another pump but wasn't sure what for but the lift pump idea is a good shout, could it be for condenser I wonder.
thanks again
The feed pump is large diameter because it is geared down, and has a fairly short stroke.

An air pump's only employment is to evacuate a condenser. Perhaps the engine's last employment was on a boat without a condenser, hence the absence of the pump.
It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work.
ivan the terrible
Lighting the Boiler
Lighting the Boiler
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:01 pm
Boat Name: Pricilla/Alice
Location: deepest darkest Somerset

Re: engine bit's missing

Post by ivan the terrible » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:56 am

Kelly Anderson wrote: โ†‘
Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:44 pm
ivan the terrible wrote: โ†‘
Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:47 pm
thanks for the reply I did think it might be the BFP but wasn't sure I thought it might be air or vacuum pump as it has a rather large piston.
I did workout the chain drive bit ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜ฃ (it was connected I took it off as I didn't want to run it dry)

and as for the cam I did think another pump but wasn't sure what for but the lift pump idea is a good shout, could it be for condenser I wonder.
thanks again
The feed pump is large diameter because it is geared down, and has a fairly short stroke.

An air pump's only employment is to evacuate a condenser. Perhaps the engine's last employment was on a boat without a condenser, hence the absence of the pump.
Thanks for the information.
I suspect that it was removed before the engine was sent for a rebuild back in the early 90's unfortunately the boat was caught in a building fire so will never know.
I have searched the Internet and there seems to be very little information on steam boats in any detail i.e someone showing what all the bits are and what they do so there's going to be a good few questions on here ๐Ÿ˜†๐Ÿ˜
warning may be grumpy :lol: 8-)
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PeteThePen1
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Re: engine bit's missing

Post by PeteThePen1 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:00 pm

Ivan

Do have a look at Beckmann's Boatshop and his Steamboating 101 page: [http://www.steamboating.net/page11.html

I seem to recall that there may also be video content to go with it but just now do not have the time to check for you.

Regards

Pete
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cyberbadger
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Re: engine bit's missing

Post by cyberbadger » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:47 pm

ivan the terrible wrote: โ†‘
Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:56 am
I have searched the Internet and there seems to be very little information on steam boats in any detail i.e someone showing what all the bits are and what they do so there's going to be a good few questions on here ๐Ÿ˜†๐Ÿ˜
No problem sir, you have come to the right place for answers.

As far as your feedpump, you'll want a minimum of two ways to add water back into your boiler when you go out on the water.

An engine driven pump is a popular option. Some people include the hand pump because your going to need a handpump whenever you do a hydrostatic test anyway. Personally I still don't keep the handpump onboard on the water because practically it would be more of a physical chore to keep up with my 6hp plant then I am willing to commit to. I use two injectors which are in fairly common use in the UK. Separate steam pumps, whether simplex or duplex are another common option. You can potentially use an appropriate electric pump if you had a battery or potentially made electricity made from the main engine via permanent magnet alternator. I think in practice most steam launch engines are so low in horsepower that they can't deal with the Horsepower reduction to the propellor or paddlewheel to run a alternator or generator. The horsepower that an engine driven mechanical pump uses is usually so negligible that its not considered much. Hypro mechanical piston pumps are another good option.

It is impractical for me to handpump 30 gallons into my boiler when the boiler is still cold. At that point a funnel and a bucket would be quicker. What I use most often is a battery operated Ryobi transfer pump to do the initial fill of my boiler on the water. I made a battery adapter so I can use the same Dewalt 20v max batteries that I use for all my other cordless tools.

Looks like a very nice engine.

-CB
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