Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

A special section just for steam engines and boilers, as without these you may as well fit a sail.
Post Reply
User avatar
froya66
Steam on Deck
Steam on Deck
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:36 pm
Boat Name: Frøya
Location: Esbjerg, Denmark

Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by froya66 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:29 pm

Hello fellow steamboaters

I have been involved in the restoration/reconstruction of a 31' steam launch/pinnace probably build by J. Samuel White in Cowes around 1870.

It was bought by the Danish navy and brought to Denmark onboard "Fregatten Jylland". I believe a number of similar vessels were built for the British Navy.

Only the hull exist, and the steam plant has to be reconstructed.

I am basically interested in all sorts of data regarding similar sized naval launches/pinnaces from that period but I am especially interested in data for the machine/boiler plant.

Do any of the British vessels still exist with the original machinery?

Best regards
Jørgen Hansen
Edward
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:25 pm
Boat Name: No Boat Yet
Location: Ambleside , Cumbria , UK.

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by Edward » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:35 am

Dear Jorgen ,

There are some steam boats in the UK which may be similar to the pinnace you are helping to restore ; but none are quite as old .

Naval Pinnace 198 is bigger, LOA 50' Beam 9'9". Built in 1911 by J S White she has a Mumford type 3x drum watertube boiler and a Mumford semi-enclosed compound engine 6 1/2"+13" x 8". She is at the Royal Navy Museum at Portsmouth . She was steamed fairly regularly a few years (5?) ago but I'm not sure of her present status.

Number 463 is a 32' former RN cutter built in 1899 by JS White . She has her original 3/4" + " x 4 1/2" engine and a Gunboat type firetube boiler . I believe she is also part of the RN Museum and is being restored .

Osborne is another JS White built ex Admiralty cutter and Royal Barge. She was built in 1896 and is 31'3" LOA , 25'7" LWL , Beam 7'5", Draft 3'6" with a rounded stem and counter (fantail) stern. Her engine was built in 1896 by JS white and is a compound 4" + 7 1/2" x 5" rated at 19 IHP at 485 rpm . The boiler is a modern gunboat type firetube boiler . She is now displayed ashore at the Sandringham Museum (open only in summer)

Albert is a 35' long , 7'8" beam former Admiralty cutter built 1910 by Rowhedge Ironworks Co Ltd and has the original 4 3/4" + 9" x 5" Mumford engine , the boiler is a gunboat type firetube . I believe she too is undergoing restoration at the RN Museum .

Janet is a 40' long 9'6" beam ex Admiralty Admirals Barge built by JS White in 1892 Her hull and cabin are probably pretty near the original but her engine and boiler room have been heavily modified and changed . She has an 1891 J S White engine 4 3/4" + 9" x 5" rated at 30 IHP at 450 rpm but it is not original to the boat. Janet is in private ownership on Windermere .


I would guess that Osborne or Number 463 would be the closest to your Pinnace though 20 years later . Hull design changed less than engine and boiler design in these 20 years and I would be surprised if she had either a compound engine or watertube boiler in 1870 .

I hope this has been of some interest . Most of my information is from the May 2000 edition of the Steamboat Register published by the SBA , so some of my facts may be a bit out of date .

Probably the best book which deals with this sort of boat is sadly out of print . It is Steam Picket Boats by Lieutenant Commander NBJ Stapleton , published 1980 by Terrence Dalton Ltd of Lavenham Suffolk . ISBN 0 900963 63 8 . If you can find a copy I strongly reccomend it . Most of the boats it deals with are slightly larger and later , but it gives a good deal of background information covering the genesis of RN pinnaces ,cutters etc culminating in the Picket Boats for which JS White was largely responsible.

Best Regards Edward .
User avatar
artemis
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 am
Boat Name: Pond Skimmer
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by artemis » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:05 pm

Edward wrote:Dear Jorgen ,

Probably the best book which deals with this sort of boat is sadly out of print . It is Steam Picket Boats by Lieutenant Commander NBJ Stapleton , published 1980 by Terrence Dalton Ltd of Lavenham Suffolk . ISBN 0 900963 63 8 . If you can find a copy I strongly reccomend it . Most of the boats it deals with are slightly larger and later , but it gives a good deal of background information covering the genesis of RN pinnaces ,cutters etc culminating in the Picket Boats for which JS White was largely responsible.

Best Regards Edward .
Once again, Google to the rescue. I typed in "steam picket boat n b j stapleton" in the search bar and got back lots of listings of used book sellers who have this book in stock.
Image
Ron Fossum
Steamboating Magazine Editor
http://www.steamboating.org
Edward
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:25 pm
Boat Name: No Boat Yet
Location: Ambleside , Cumbria , UK.

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by Edward » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:41 pm

Artemis as ever is resourceful and successful . I hadn't thought of doing that. But OH OH OH THE PRICES !!! I shall definitely cherish my copy the more dearly .

Another book , still available from Amazon et al for reasonable prices and therefore I believe still in Print , is " The Boats of Men of War " by Commander WE May , published 2003 by Caxton Editions , ISBN 1 84067 4318 .


Again it covers a much wider area than that which concerns you but there are four illustrations of plans of boats of about the right size and date .

The first is of the " 30' Life Gig For HMS Captain " ( HMS Captain was one of the first turretted battleships and was lost with all hands in a storm in the Bay of Biscay in September 1880 ) This shows an open launch with a gunboat type boiler , probably fired from the front , and a twin simple engine.

The second shows a 21' steam gig , again this is an open launch and the original plan was dated 30th August 1883 . It was powered by a Kingdom Patent Boiler (Vertical firetube ) and a Simpson Dennison Vertical tandem compound (steeple compound I think to our US friends) The plant was said at the time to be experimental .

The third is of a " 30' steam (life) cutter introduced in1879 " It shows an essentially open hull with about the front third decked over giving a large bow cuddy rather than a cabin . It has a gunboat boiler and a twin simple engine.

The fourth is of " The original draught of Steam Pinnace No 2 , one of the first 36' steam boats . It is dated Portsmouth Yard 26 November 1867 and is noted as a response to the Controller's circular of 17 December 1866. " Like the third it is essentially open with a bow cuddy , a gunboat boiler and twin simple engine.


Given this as evidence I would say it was very likely that your pinnace had a gunboat boiler and a simple engine , probably a twin cylinder .

It is possible that the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich in SE London might be able to help , so might the RN Museum in Portsmouth .

As you are a member of the SBA I would strongly reccommend you to contact Brian Hillsdon , the SBA archivist . He may not actually have the information you want but I am sure he would be able to point you in the best direction to find it .


Best Regards Edward
User avatar
froya66
Steam on Deck
Steam on Deck
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:36 pm
Boat Name: Frøya
Location: Esbjerg, Denmark

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by froya66 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:32 am

Dear Edward and Artemis

Thanks to both of you.

I am sure that a number of the references might be just what I needed.

By the way - From a start I wondered what would be the correct englisk designation for this type of boat.

In danish we call it a "barkasse" sounding much like "barge", but it seems that this is one designation that is not correct.

Best regards
Jørgen
User avatar
artemis
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 am
Boat Name: Pond Skimmer
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by artemis » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:23 pm

froya66 wrote:Dear Edward and Artemis...

By the way - From a start I wondered what would be the correct englisk designation for this type of boat.

In danish we call it a "barkasse" sounding much like "barge", but it seems that this is one designation that is not correct.

Best regards
Jørgen
"Barge" is about the closest single word descriptor, but it's a little more than that. Originally a "barkasse" (derived from Italian "barcaccia" = longboat) was the largest dinghy on a sailing ship, followed in size by the pinnace. The barkasse was used to fetch drinking water, supplies, land men, etc. Since the late 1800s the term in German usage has come to mean "work boat" and in ports as "barge".
Image
Ron Fossum
Steamboating Magazine Editor
http://www.steamboating.org
User avatar
froya66
Steam on Deck
Steam on Deck
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:36 pm
Boat Name: Frøya
Location: Esbjerg, Denmark

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by froya66 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:37 pm

Dear fellow steam boaters

We have now investigated further, and have reasons to believe that the engine was more or less identical to this Danish Navy built compound, found at the Danish Technical Museum in Helsingør.

Image

It measures 121 + 210 X 136 mm (or approx 4 3/4" + 8 1/4" * 5 3/8")

This engine was installed in barkasse/gunboat DN no. 42, being one of many copies of the 30' boat from J.S.White.

Unfortunately the machine is not available due to the Danish law of museum activity.

The museum must preserve it for future studies. In the museum world it is not relevant that it comes into use and is presented for people in a living and interesting way.

If anybody should know of an available machine of about similar design and size, please let me know.

Best regards
Jørgen
Last edited by froya66 on Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
farmerden
Stirring the Pot
Stirring the Pot
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:14 am
Boat Name: Steam Queen
Location: Shawnigan Lake B.C. Canada

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by farmerden » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:00 am

Jorgen Do you know if the two pumps on the front of the engine are boiler feed pumps? I would assume the air pump is along the side towards the rear and I've never seem two boiler feed pumps before. It's always nice to have a spare cause if it's made by man it's going to wear out sooner or later! Den
User avatar
froya66
Steam on Deck
Steam on Deck
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:36 pm
Boat Name: Frøya
Location: Esbjerg, Denmark

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by froya66 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:22 pm

Den

It is two feed pumps, and I do also like the arrangement, though I have been told that a Scottish yoke often is rather noisy.

See another two pump arrangement on this larger 1897 Danish Navy Compound. It is more complicated to produce, but for sure more silent, also when it comes to water hammer.



Image

Best regards
Jørgen
steamboatjack
Full Steam Ahead
Full Steam Ahead
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:02 am
Boat Name: No Boat Yet
Location: Cumbria U.K.

Re: Technical data for 1870 navy steam launch/pinnace

Post by steamboatjack » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:51 am

Jorgen,

Ref the slow speed pumps open ended, these were usually air pumps (condensate) with the feed pumps driven off the crosshead, but its difficult to tell from the pic.
That is an unusual engine.
Ref scotch yokes, they are fine if made properly, the clearance on the pin bearings is critical as its the same clearance as the slides (hope this makes sense).

regards Jack
Post Reply