Question about Safety Guidelines for Lee's Mills

[JonRiley56]

Hi,

I was lookinig over the safety guidelines for Lee's Mills and it includes this statement:

5. Rubber hose or tubing of any kind, including ASME steam rated hose, is not allowed in any line capable of being at boiler pressure or carrying steam with the exception of a lance, delivery side of an ejector or engine exhaust after a feedwater heat exchanger. Braided flexible metal hose assemblies are acceptable (braid covered metal bellows with integral fittings).


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I have a heat exchanger on my exhaust loop to allow for preheating feedwater if I want to. I am currently not using it. I have about 3" of Rubber hose connecting a pipe nipple on the black iron pipe coming off my engine to the exhaust inlet side of the heat exchanger. I have a similar set up on the outlet side where the exhaust heads off through my condensation loop.

Will I run into issues at Lee's Mills ? It sounds like I am technically non compliant.

jon

[fredrosse]

Jon, where did you get the Lee's Mills safety rules? I plan to attend and want to be sure I am OK for the rules.

Several short automotive radiator hose pieces are in my exhaust piping, with no valves that could restrict free exhaust flow from the engine. I would think that, if there was no way to restrict the exhaust steam (such as an isolation valve on the steam flow to/from the heater) then the presence of a feedwater heater in the exhaust line would be irrelevant.

I believe you got a feedwater heater that looks like a piece of copper tubing, with a water jacket surrounding the central steam pipe? If that is the case, then it is really no different than a piece of exhaust piping, provided there is no valve in the exhaust path, and the heater steam flow path does not restrict exhaust flow.

[DetroiTug]

Fred, I sent those over to Jon.

Here they are, hopefully they do not mind them being posted here. Sage advice and rules.

Boating Safety
All boat operation and equipment must comply with the State of New Hampshire “Boater’s Guide”, latest edition. These rules are consistent with U.S. Coast Guard regulations. The abbreviated list of required items below has been selected as especially important:
1. A wearable P.F.D. (personal floatation device) of proper size and type for each person on board is required.
All must be Coast Guard approved and “readily accessible”. They must be out of the original plastic wrapping and be stowed in convenient, immediately accessible locations
2. Children under 13 must wear a P.F.D.
3. A throwable P.F.D. must be “immediately available”.
4. A fire extinguisher of proper type must be “readily accessible” and verified as serviceable.
5. Approved lighting is required when operating between the hours of sunset and sunrise.
The State of New Hampshire buoying system is not related to the Coast Guard system in any way. Purchasing a chart is a good idea unless you know the lake very well.

Boiler Safety
Boilers and all plumbing under pressure must comply with applicable State of New Hampshire regulations. The abbreviated list of requirements and good practices below will be required of all boats operating at the meet:
1. No riveted boilers allowed.
2. A sealed, ASME code safety valve must be installed and must not have a stop valve between the boiler and the safety valve.
3. All valves which can reach boiler pressure must be steam rated to pressures equal to the safety valve setting or greater. A stop valve meeting this requirement must be on each boiler connection except the safety conn.
4. There must be at least two (2) methods of pumping water into the boiler, one of which must be a hand pump.
5. Rubber hose or tubing of any kind, including ASME steam rated hose, is not allowed in any line capable of being at boiler pressure or carrying steam with the exception of a lance, delivery side of an ejector or engine exhaust after a feedwater heat exchanger. Braided flexible metal hose assemblies are acceptable (braid covered metal bellows with integral fittings).
6. Boilers at working pressure must not be left unattended.
7. Operators must certify that their boiler has been hydro tested to safety valve pressure and provide the date of that test.
8. Operators of gas or oil fired, fire tube boilers and any boiler operated over 200 psi – please call Dave Thompson at (603) 476-2224 prior to operation.
9. Any boiler connection that is open to the atmosphere after the stop valve must be plugged.

-Ron

[dhic001]

I'm glad i'm not there, the rules listed below seem rather silly. Why no riveted boilers, when the vast majority of the boilers in preservation are riveted. I agree with two means of putting water in the boiler, but why must one be a hand pump? I know of a good many plants that haven't got hand pumps, but still have two or more ways of putting water in the boiler. To my mind, a hand pump is useful for testing, but I'd hate to try and get home on one, especially on my own.
Daniel

1. No riveted boilers allowed.
4. There must be at least two (2) methods of pumping water into the boiler, one of which must be a hand pump.
-Ron

[DetroiTug]

Daniel,

Some of that regarding riveted boilers is more than likely requirements set forth by the insurance company covering the event. State inspectors approve riveted boilers routinely.

Those rules would prevent me from participating. The hose I'm using on my exhaust is after a feedwater heater, although the heater has been omitted from the feedwater supply - so it's essentially not there. The hose is exactly the same hose used for the exhaust on my Chris Craft which sees intermittent temperatures much higher than on the steamboat. It's connected to a 1" open pipe in the stack, no way is it ever going to see boiler pressure. Three years of service and it's doing fine.

Regarding the "delivery side of an ejector" the rules mention it's permissible to use hose here. I disagree with that. If the ejector fails to pick up water then it's steam at boiler temperature and potential boiler pressure on the delivery side, at the very least, steam rated hose should be called out. I'm mounting an ejector as a bilge pump and using iron pipe on the exhaust side. Also installing a valve on the delivery side that can be closed to flush out the pick up.

Regarding the hand pump, it's definitely a good idea to have one. Although, the majority of them are too small to have any real capability under way. As a test once, I tried to keep up with the boiler with the 1" X 2" handpump, that test didn't last long
It failed - or I did.



-Ron

[fredrosse]

Did some checking on the origins of the new rules:

The prohibition of riveted boilers is tied to a boiler explosion, where an old, uninspected rivited boiler was put into service with no preparation or testing, and failed. Evidently rivited boilers, such as many locomotive and traction engine applications will be getting more rigorous inspections because of this, probably more of an expense than a small steam launch owner would like to endure.

The prohibition of rubber hose for steam service applies to steam hoses thatcould be pressurized, not to hoses connecting to atmospheric discharge with no restrictions or valves that could result in pressure buildup. Many steamboats use automotive radiator hose for steam exhaust lines, and if in good condition, without restriction or valves, will continue to be allowed at the Lees Mills event.

Reinforced Automotive coolant hose, with hose clamps, is rated for 15 PSIG / 250F service and is routinely used for non-pressurized steam exhaust lines.

[JonRiley56]

Thanks Fred.

It looks like I will be OK. No valves down stream of my hose joints, open to the atmosphere.

jon

[artemis]

There's a reason for requirements:

In July of 2001 a 110HP Case traction engine exploded at the county fairground in Medina, Ohio. Five people were killed and 47 injured. The unit was built in 1908 and was a standard Case engine with a riveted boiler and stay bolted. Investigation revealed:
1. The boiler had not been tested or examined since at least 1993;
2. The water gauge glass was NOT reading properly;
3. The pressure gauge read 25 to 30 psi UNDER under the actual pressure;
4. There was only one way to put water in the boiler - via an injector which failed to operate;
5. The safety valve was tested after the explosion and failed to open at 225 psi;
6. The stay bolts for the boiler crown sheet had wasted to less than 50% diameter;

The Case was driven under its own power several blocks to the fair grounds (over asphault paving under mid-day July temperatures) and parked. Shortly thereafter the boiler exploded. It was determined that the water level in the boiler dropped below the top of the crown sheet and the crown sheet collapsed into the firebox.

I'm no engineer and so I don't know if a non-riveted code boiler would have survived or not. More than anything the "riveted" seems to indicate that careful inspection of boilers should be mandated and starting with "riveted" is at least an attempt in that direction. The Northwest Steam Society has instituted its own scheme for members' boats that requires a hydro test at 1.5 times MAWP, lifting of the safety under steam, verification of working water gauge and pressure gauge, and working hand feed water pump. The boiler and fittings are examined for leaks and sensible "plumbing". There is no cost to members and it takes very little time. We haven't had any boiler explosions so I guess it works.

[dhic001]

Unfortunately it seems that you are confusing the situation by bringing the Medina accident into this. I've read the report on the Medina accident, and it was blindingly obvious that the engine involved should not have been operated under any circumstance. Its failure was not the result of it being a riveted boiler, it was the result of the operation of a boiler that was extremely wasted, poorly maintained and totally unfit for service. Had it been a welded boiler, it would have behaved exactly the same way, as the failure was in the firebox crown sheet. Nothing that I have seen indicates that the explosion was as a result of the boilerbeing of riveted construction. Rather than lay blame on a type of boiler construction, which has proven to be successful for around 200 years, lay the blame where it should be laid, at the lack of maintenace of the boiler, and its operation while in totally unsound condition.
Daniel

[DetroiTug]

Regarding the Medina traction engine. A bit more info. The stays were threaded into the crown sheet. The crown sheet had thinned due to corrosion in some areas to .085", some of the stays had only one thread engagement. Someone stupidly tried to remedy the problem by welding the stay-ends in to the crown sheet from the outside - probably because it was leaking at the joints. No one experienced in steam and in their right mind would have fired this boiler up. There were reports that experienced traction engineers had examined the boiler and reported that the crownsheet was sagging between the stays and strongly advised against firing it. It was also reported that the engine had been stored for many years and had just been sold. Right on the receipt the seller added that it was not being sold as an operating engine and should be thoroughly examined by a boiler inspector prior to operation. This was a failure of the crownsheet turning loose from the stays and had nothing to do with riveted joints. It's a good example of why we all must be safe to preserve our hobby.

-Ron