The Steamboating Forum

Just wondering if you guys have 2 separate thru hull fittings for water pickup for each of your water supplies ? I was thinking of having one and put a tee in the line to go to to each. I'm drawing fresh water from the river. So far I just have a hand pump any suggestions on a second water supply that is easy to install ? thanks again.

I'm using just one that goes in to a Perko sea strainer then branches out to the different feed pumps. It should have a seacock, but it doesn't (I'm a fast whittler . The fewer thru-hull fittings the better. Easier and safer to maintain.

Some may suggest that with multiple pickups - if one gets plugged, the others wont be etc. A bronze screen like the Perko or Wilcox-Crittendon brands over the pickup will keep it from getting plugged. More important is the sea strainer or a filter of some sort. A tiny flake of anything can render some pumps inoperable.

-Ron

DetroiTug wrote:A tiny flake of anything can render some pumps inoperable.

Especially if you are running non condensing with a Steam Injector. Steam Injectors (because of the venturis) can quit if you look at them wrong - very sensitive to any foreign materials and any leak on the water intake.

My 2 primary water sources are injectors. This is a NOS(New Old Stock) Penberthy strainer.: The Perko Bronze Intake filter looks awesome.

-CB

To answer the second question in the original posting that I missed.

The easiest engine driven feed pump arrangement I know of is a chain driven Hypro. Everything can be purchased off the shelf except the mounting bracket for the pump itself, that has to be designed and made. It is certainly easier than an eccentric or gear-driven for those without machine tools. And too the speed of the pump can be changed by changing sprockets/ratio. The downside to the Hypro is that they are not easily serviced/repaired. I took mine apart to clean it, I got so far and quit, apparently it takes special tools to remove the inner valves. It looked like a plastic cage pressed in to the pump housing and I seen no way of removing it without destroying it.

Yes, injectors are fickle beasts. As mentioned, foreign material can be detrimental also feedwater temperature as well. I've heard/read reports of even lake water temps in the summertime rendering them inoperable. There must be a certain amount of temperature differential between the steam and feedwater for them to operate reliably. People wrap wet rags around them etc to make them work when this happens or just beat on them with the nearest heavy object as evidenced by all the hammer marks on some of the Ebay units . I wouldn't rely on one as a primary feed supply. Rather a piston pump of some sort with positive displacement.

-Ron

Injectors are very reliable, if you buy a decent one, pipe it up with a reliable and clean (filtered) supply and pipe it up with shortest run to the boiler as possible with as little bends as you can in the line. Make sure the injector cannot reach anything approaching boiler temperature- a common problem is that the downstream check valve passes back slightly, allowing hot water to back flow into the injector and keep it hot- it is this reason that you see so many with wet rags on. Although it is true that on a hot day sunlight and warm feedwater can exacerbate the problem.

Many of the smaller sizes, 1/2" and below, are very sensitive to head pressure and it would be worthwhile setting up the injector on hoses to find out what height above the waterline it works at best with the given average working pressure of your boiler. Once found you can rigid pipe it into place.

Injectors have always been and continue to be a very reliable means of putting water into a boiler, and are used as primary and sole means of feedwater on many boats.

Greg

Aside from the aforesaid issues with dirt and temperatures, the problem I have with injectors is that they are what I call a batch process unit. In other words, there is nothing automatic about them. You need to be watching the level all the time and them use them. O.K. for making up water at the dock after a long period of idleness but a pain where you sit down when steaming. Also (personal gripe) they are noisy.

As I have preached before, you will be awfully busy when chugging along. You are likely to be the skipper, navigator, black gang, operating engineer, tour guide and baby sitter. Doofing around with feed water is something that should be automated.

Disassembling a Hypro: They sell a tool to yank out those valves. I made one out of a hunk of aluminum tubing. Just three hooks arranged so that you insert the hooks, rotate to lock them in and then rock and pull and they pop right out. As soon as I built the tool I didn't need it any more. The prefillter screen has stopped any fouling. But I have an whole clean set of valves and an allen wrench all ready to go just in case.

Plumb in a hypro so that the output is up so any bubbles can escape easily. I have a squeeze bulb from an outboard gas can in the suction line to the pump to prime it. Also the squeeze bulb collapses under any significant suction thus telling be if there is any restriction up stream.

Greg,

Incorrect installation is more than likely a big part of the issue with some injectors. I have seen folks use them as primary feed, but I've seen a lot of folks have trouble with them too.

Yes, I've found out most check valves leak back. The only one I've found that works all the time is the Stainless Apollo brand with softseat for hydraulic service. It was so bad one year I had to close the valve at the boiler when I wasn't taking feedwater or it ran all the way back to the thru-hull. Installed the Apollo and no trouble since. Those United brass spring check valves with softseat, I've seen two (mine and one other) and neither of them seated reliably at all.

Had that issue on the boat and the car, Apollo softseat fixed both of them. In the future, it will be part of the initial piping.

Mike,

Thanks for the how-to and tool suggestion. Generally when I'm disassembling a plastic part like that, I'll attack it as it is threaded and it's pressed or attack it as if it were pressed and it's threaded then wind up having to order new parts. I pried and twisted on it a bit and nothing moved, so I stopped.

On the exit piping going up, I install a 400 pound air compressor relief valve on the exit side ( because I'm famous for leaving the valve closed at the boiler feedwater inlet), if the pump is airbound I simply pull up on the ring of the relief valve and let the air out.

-Ron

Do any of you use just a 12 volt pump my boiler is going to run around 95psi would a 12 volt 125 psi pump work ok?

The number one quality desired and required of a feed water system is reliability. I don't associate anything electrical with the concept of reliability.

This coming from a person who makes much of his living in electronics.

I wouldn't do it.

Same here, I would not trust a 12 volt electric pump for boiler feed without some sort of redundancy (another viable means) and only a handpump as backup.

To pump feedwater it is going to take a powerful pump with a powerful motor.

12 volt DC motors are brushed, if the pump picks up something that locks it up, it's a dead short across the armature, and on a high amperage motor it means a blown fuse or fried motor - no feedwater.

And too a pump like that is going to draw quite a bit of current and it is going to whip a battery pretty fast - like 3-4 hours. Some try to use converted to 12vdc gun oil burners for small steam plants and that is the problem with that - how to charge the battery.

-Ron