Hand Hole Gaskets - Major Headache!! I Need Help!

[Centurion]

New to steam boating as of last year's purchase of Black Eagle. During my first winterization last fall, I removed the 2 lower hand and one upper hole covers to clean out and dry the bottom of my boiler.

Finally replaced all the accessories I took off for warm weather winter storage and had a major struggles replacing the hand hole covers. I did purchase new gaskets. It was very difficult and awkward due to the low position and location of the hand holes but thought I finally had them in the right position, hand tightened the nuts and then wrench tightened again 90 degrees.

Added water tonight and the new gaskets leaked like a sieve. Never got enough water in to check the upper hole.

Any tricks you guys know of to handle this problem? What am I doing wrong? The gaskets seem very stiff and not easily compressed. They also have raised lettering on them that might not compress completely. Anxious to hydro test and get on the water but I can't steam with water pouring out of the handholes.

Help!!!

[dhic001]

I gave up on gaskets quite a while ago, and now use Klinger Sealex. Basically its got a sticky back to it, you stick it to the door, pull it into place and then keep tightening. It is very forgiving to poor surfaces, which older boiler doors often have. Comes in various widths too. It does squash up more than some of the older gaskets, so you may run out of thread on the bolt, just add a washer if necessary. As with any gasket on a door, it needs tightening as the boiler comes under pressure and heat. Be aware that it will take quite an effort to knock the door in once its been in use for quite some time!
Daniel

[Steamboat Mike]

If the gaskets you are using have raised lettering on them you have the right ones. Be sure the covers are properly seated with as even a margin of black gasket showing as possible. Put a couple of drops of valve oil on the threads of the cover, makes tightening and later looseniing much easier. Next tighten the gaskets fairly tight with a 12" adjustable wrench. Don't go crazy but don't be shy about putting a pretty good turn on the cold gaskets, they are intentionally made quite stiff at room temperature. I have the same boiler on Catawissa that you have on Black Eagle. I have found it most helpful to install all the covers wrench tight and then pressurize with air to check for leaks. I think it is much easier to hear the leaks, you can improvise a stethoscope with a piece of ear size cardboard tube to get down close and personal with the lower covers. Best of all is that it is so much easier to remove an improperly seated cover if you only have to vent the air and don't have to deal with twenty gallons of water.

Once the covers are airtight, vent and fill with water and fire up. Watch closely for leaks and tighten as needed before steam is raised. Raise steam, 100 pounds or so, let the pressure drop to zero and as soon as it does, give the cover nuts a moderate twist to take up the set in the now softened gasket. This should set you up for a handhole-trouble free season.

This is the procedure I use on Catawissa and I don't have leakage problems. Topogee gaskets are the only ones I use, they are superior to anything else on the market. I don't own stock in the company, but for the number of gaskets I have used over the years I sometimes feel that I do.

Hope this is helpful. Happy steaming and welcome to the best hobby in the whole wide world.
Best regards, Steamboat Mike

[Centurion]

If the gaskets you are using have raised lettering on them you have the right ones. Be sure the covers are properly seated with as even a margin of black gasket showing as possible. Put a couple of drops of valve oil on the threads of the cover, makes tightening and later looseniing much easier. Next tighten the gaskets fairly tight with a 12" adjustable wrench. Don't go crazy but don't be shy about putting a pretty good turn on the cold gaskets, they are intentionally made quite stiff at room temperature. I have the same boiler on Catawissa that you have on Black Eagle. I have found it most helpful to install all the covers wrench tight and then pressurize with air to check for leaks. I think it is much easier to hear the leaks, you can improvise a stethoscope with a piece of ear size cardboard tube to get down close and personal with the lower covers. Best of all is that it is so much easier to remove an improperly seated cover if you only have to vent the air and don't have to deal with twenty gallons of water.

Once the covers are airtight, vent and fill with water and fire up. Watch closely for leaks and tighten as needed before steam is raised. Raise steam, 100 pounds or so, let the pressure drop to zero and as soon as it does, give the cover nuts a moderate twist to take up the set in the now softened gasket. This should set you up for a handhole-trouble free season.

This is the procedure I use on Catawissa and I don't have leakage problems. Topogee gaskets are the only ones I use, they are superior to anything else on the market. I don't own stock in the company, but for the number of gaskets I have used over the years I sometimes feel that I do.

Hope this is helpful. Happy steaming and welcome to the best hobby in the whole wide world.
Best regards, Steamboat Mike

Appreciate the input but I'm still confused. I'm using TPOPOG-E gaskets and their web site says to hand tighten the nut as much as possible and then tighten an additional 1/4 turn with a wrench. That's what I did. Water poured out. Would it help to boil the gaskets just prior to installing them? Would it help with the pliability? The TOPOG site cautions about over tightening.

[Mike Rometer]

One should always be cautious about overtightening anything. However suggesting a quarter turn as a suitable tension is extremely variable and to my mind a shade on the hopeful side of light anyway. The thread on the bolt could be any size/pitch so the 1/4 turn would obviously pull differently for each pitch. I think I would try again, and try tightening a bit more, as the water leaks, to see how much it stops for each bit extra that you apply. This is where to be careful about overtightening as it's easy to get carried away with the feeling of success.

[RGSP]

One should always be cautious about overtightening anything. However suggesting a quarter turn as a suitable tension is extremely variable and to my mind a shade on the hopeful side of light anyway. The thread on the bolt could be any size/pitch so the 1/4 turn would obviously pull differently for each pitch. I think I would try again, and try tightening a bit more, as the water leaks, to see how much it stops for each bit extra that you apply. This is where to be careful about overtightening as it's easy to get carried away with the feeling of success.

I second all this. Lubricating the threads AND the gasket surfaces is almost essential for our sort of steam/water joints. The other thing is that most gasket materials do "creep" over significant periods of time. I would try and find a proper sized ring spanner rather than an adjustable: the lengths of these are chosen so that a normal person (not, of course, an automotive repair shop gorilla) can't easily over-tighten the nuts by hand. Tighten all the nuts as much as you can, doing opposite ones in sequence, like car wheelnuts, not going round clockwise or anticlockwise. Then re-tighten after 12 hours, and you'll probably get another significant angle on the spanner. Try again after another 12 hours if you're feeling keen, but it shouldn't move as much, if at all. The gasket creep process speeds up with temperature, so re-tightening after the boiler has been in "light steam" is certainly a good idea.

Having done my workshop practice training while in the Royal Navy, we didn't normally use gaskets at all on steam joints: the bare metal faces were just blued and hand scraped: do that by all means if you feel like a challenge. The result really is very good, doesn't take all that long if you're practiced at it, and there's no gasket to creep.

Or use Daniel's approach of a good setting gasket compound: at the sort of temperatures and pressures we're normally talking about in steam launches, it's a perfectly good technique.

[Steamboat Mike]

I am puzzled by the amount of leakage you describe after inserting the covers and tightening them.If you have water leakage that will not allow raising the level to the upper handholes something is definitely wrong. It sounds like what I get when the cover is crossed even a little bit. If the inner elliptical land that holds the I.D. of the gasket does not fit perfectly in the I.D. of the opening the cover can not take up on the gasket and the water will come out in torrents. Have you tried fitting the covers without the gasket to see if there is a problem at that level? The cover should be a good fit with not more than a sixteenth of an inch wiggle room, but no interference around the perimeter of the inner raised land. If that is O.K. try it with the gasket and examine it very closely with a good light to insure proper seating. One final consideration, I think Topogee specifies no lubricant on their gasket.

hope this helps, best regards, Mike

[Centurion]

I am puzzled by the amount of leakage you describe after inserting the covers and tightening them.If you have water leakage that will not allow raising the level to the upper handholes something is definitely wrong. It sounds like what I get when the cover is crossed even a little bit. If the inner elliptical land that holds the I.D. of the gasket does not fit perfectly in the I.D. of the opening the cover can not take up on the gasket and the water will come out in torrents. Have you tried fitting the covers without the gasket to see if there is a problem at that level? The cover should be a good fit with not more than a sixteenth of an inch wiggle room, but no interference around the perimeter of the inner raised land. If that is O.K. try it with the gasket and examine it very closely with a good light to insure proper seating. One final consideration, I think Topogee specifies no lubricant on their gasket.

hope this helps, best regards, Mike

*I wasn't clear. I stopped adding water after I found the two bottom hand holes leaking so badly.
*I am assuming no fit problems with the covers without the gaskets. They've been on the boiler I think since it was built. They were also leak free last year.
*The covers may have been slightly misaligned but they are incredibly awkward to install since they are at deck level on the boat. I have to get my head on the deck, then try to reposition the covers with one hand while keeping tension on the bolt to hold the cover to the boiler with the other hand. The cover is quite tight between the inner and outer wall of the boiler which means it doesn't move in some positions.
*Last night, I did a test by heated up the gaskets in boiling water to see if it helped with the pliability. It didn't.
*I've cleaned the cover surfaces as best possible and marked the axis of the cover to make it more obvious during the next installation.
*I've checked the mating flat surfaces on the boiler with my finger and they seem to be fairly smooth
*I'm going to try vice grips to hold the bolt section of the cover to make it easier to maneuver once in place.
*Going to reinstall tonight and check for leaks.
*If bottom two hand hole gaskets are tight, I'll continue fill to check for leaks on the one top hand hole gasket replaced.
*If it still leaks, I'm going to launch Black Eagle with the drain plug open, let it drift away and not worry about it ever again.

[DetroiTug]

If access is the issue, might be easier in the long run to break the boiler loose and lift it a bit on a chain hoist so you can see exactly what is going on. I agree with Mike about the tightening method, they are making a lot of assumptions with "hand tight and then another quarter turn". I would install the handhole covers, then put about 10 psi of air in it and then soap it with a brush to check for leaks. Then tighten accordingly until there are no leaks. Then hydro and fire it. Gasket material is very stiff, a quarter turn on the screw beyond hand tight could be nearly any amount of clamping force.

Also, feel the inner surface, it should be very smooth, if any roughness is felt, take some fine crocus cloth and clean the surface, it may have some of the old gasket on it.

-Ron

[Kelly Anderson]

I use gaskets from http://www.mcmaster.com, #1923K22, which I believe are the same ones you and Mike have been talking about.

The first year of operation, I had problems due to the inside surface of the boiler shell having damage on the gasket seating surface, and also due to the clamping bridge having too little span, so it was coming up tight against the handhole cover itself before if came up really tight on the boiler shell. Half an hour with a certified welder followed by my spending an hour with the Dremel took care of the shell, and the metal shaper took care of the bridge span.

If you are having trouble seeing the alignment, you might try a mirror in the bilge so you can see it straight on without having to stand on your head. Bright working light is also a must.

Agree with the others, hand tight plus 1/4 turn is guaranteed to leak. A good healthy one handed pull with a 12" wrench is a good place to start. If you are certain, and I mean certain as it is possible to be, of the condition of the handhole cover, its stud, nut, and bridge, then you can give the nut an additional tweak should you hear a slight leak under pressure, but only if you are certain. That is no place to be taking a chance. You will find that no additional torque is needed after internal pressure has squished the gasket a little. Once the sound stops, stop tightening.

My handhole comes out after every operation. A dry boiler is a stable boiler in storage. I use the same gasket over and over as long as it isn't showing signs of damage.